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oiling head bolts

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 Post subject: oiling head bolts
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:25 pm 
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Do you guys oil head bolts before installing and torquing them?

According to elrings practical guide to cylinder-head bolts, one should.

"before installation, the seating surface of the bolt head and the thread should be oiled so that the friction factors are not too high and the required clamp force is achieved"


I am asking about stretch bolts for ABH v8 heads

THANKS!

Greesha


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 Post subject: Re: oiling head bolts
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:32 pm 
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kickin' tires'n lightin fires
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This will tell you everything you need to know:


Link to video

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 Post subject: Re: oiling head bolts
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:41 pm 
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Good talking to u last night...... Now stop dilly dallying and get that car going :-)

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 Post subject: Re: oiling head bolts
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:23 pm 
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I sprinkle rubber on my Cherios

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The video you posted is for engine studs, I think they are using arp one, and arp recommends using the ultra-torque stuff

I am using oem victor reinz, bolts.
My understanding of the video is not to use oil, correct?

I should be fine just putting them in dry, and doing the three stage torque, 30ft lb, 44 ft lb, and 1.2 a turn or 2 1/4 turns.


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 Post subject: Re: oiling head bolts
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:40 pm 
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It doesn't really matter whether it's bolts or studs as far as what type of lubrication to use, the point of that video was a demonstration of the effects on torque between the various lubes. If you don't want to use a torque lube then you'll have to use oil and go through a few cycles of tightening and loosening before you can be confident that the clamping force is correct. With a torque lube you only have to tighten them once. I wouldn't do it dry because the amount of friction you'd have to overcome with repeated torque cycles would be too great to reliably know where you're at with the clamping force. Moly is too unreliable and you saw what happened with the "peanut butter"...

-Rog


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 Post subject: Re: oiling head bolts
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:54 pm 
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Don't use any lube. Just follow the torque sequence and do two 1/4 turns for the final torque. Put the valve covers on and start that thing.

I think using lube/oil or whatnot isn't good for stretch to yeald bolts. The reasone u would have to keep torquing after heat cycles is cause the oil is pushing up on the bolt...... Causing the bolt to loosen. These motors are aluminum and get hot quick.
Like I told u when I put my 4.2 together I did it dry and have no issues!
Maybe I can get Keith to chime in...... He's put more V8 motors together than anyone I know.

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Ron
A 2.6l stroker motor without a roof
90 V8q 5spd mit 3.6 aka the convert
91 V8q 5spd mit 4.2 aka Black Betty
91 200 20vt Avant 22psi

90 200 Avant mit 3.6 V8 *sold/traded*
91 200 20V 22lbs aka the survivor *sold/traded*
90 V8q 3.6 not stock..Urs8 gone but not forgotten :-(


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 Post subject: Re: oiling head bolts
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:16 pm 
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USE LUBE!!!!! not using any causes high inconsistant torque. im an aircraft mechanic and if you look at the charts we get any component that requires a crucial torque has to be whats called a lube torque wich means lube the bolt before torque.

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 Post subject: Re: oiling head bolts
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:35 am 
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There should be various torque specs for various types of lube used on the threads. Just find out what the manufacturer suggests (call up the company if you have to) and torque it to their spec with your lube. Most manufacturers can tell you a torque spec for regular engine oil.

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 Post subject: Re: oiling head bolts
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:38 am 
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Most OEM head bolts are pre-lubed anyway, I put them in as they are.

Brendan

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 Post subject: Re: oiling head bolts
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:22 am 
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i ALWAYS oil head, main, and rod bolts. oil the threads AND the bottom of the head.

when you thread metal it leaves behind burs and these burs will cause extra friction and you might not get the clamping force you want.

Usually just use SAE30 for this. If they are ARP use the moly lube they give you.

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 Post subject: Re: oiling head bolts
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:37 am 
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I always lube the bolts slightly before assembly. I've used white grease but usually go with engine assembly lube. Just a light coat to both sides of the washer that goes on the bolt and a dab on the threads. One thing I havn't seen mentioned yet is to make sure you clean the threads in the block(and bolt threads if needed) with a thread chaser. Do not use a tap, those are made to cut new threads and remove material, chasers only clean up threads. and make sure the bolts go in all the way without hanging up. This lets you be sure the bolts go in all the way and assures more accurate torqueing.

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 Post subject: Re: oiling head bolts
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:47 pm 
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Just to sum up what I know from bolting up and torquing super sour H2S and high pressure steam lines in refineries...

You'll lose up to 90% of the torque value due to friction loss by not doping your studs and washers and bolt faces.

A good, low-cost thread lubricant that will not contaminate aluminum or carbon/alloy steels is Nickel Anti-Seize, made by Loctite.

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I've read the spec sheets on this stuff and it's good to over 1300*C so should manage well enough in our applications. :D

Here's a link to the Technical Data Sheet (and MSDS, etc) provided by the company themselves if you're interested:

http://www.henkelna.com/cps/rde/xchg/SID-0AC83309-7D6A27EA/henkel_us/hs.xsl/full-product-list-7932.htm?countryCode=us&BU=industrial&parentredDotUID=productfinder&redDotUID=0000000I6A

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