motorgeek.com :: Socially inappropriate motoring information.
Search this topic:
motorgeek.com :: Board index :: The Tech Lounge :: Abnormally aspirated
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 69 posts ] Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

12v turbo

Author Message
 Post subject: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 2:06 am 
Offline
I sprinkle rubber on my Cherios

Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:55 pm
Posts: 263
Location: New Zealand
I saved a couple of pics of this 12v turbo setup, does anyone know anything about it? Has anyone turbo a 12v?

Image
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 2:14 am 
Offline
I post, therefore I am
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:52 pm
Posts: 3067
Location: Reno, NV
One of the words that comes to mind, is Cluster F**K

that's really interesting. one turbo? backwards? at least for the most part.

_________________
-Phil
87 5ktq - 3b swap, VEMS. And then there was one.


Top
 Profile Facebook 
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 8:36 am 
Offline
I post, therefore I am
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:19 am
Posts: 7430
Location: sideways into a snowbank, VT
how old are those pictures? there is a blue b4 in the local junkyard that was rumored to once have a 12v turbo setup. Does not have a motor now.

_________________
Dana

-1990 90q 1.9tdi swap in progress
-4kq efi 10vt<- sold
-99.5 f250 6-speed superdooty diesel
-1990 90q 20vt: 3b swap >sold
-1990 90q 20vt: 11.7 @124.5 >sold
lots of other audis that are long gone


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 8:46 am 
Offline
I sprinkle rubber on my Cherios

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:21 pm
Posts: 475
Location: Southeast VA
It may not be pretty, but I remember from the 12v forums it putting down about 400hp. Can't remember if it was whp or chp. Either way it was quite a bump up from NA form.

_________________
I will not be denied a 4 wheel burnout!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 6:29 pm 
Offline
kickin' tires'n lightin fires

Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:01 pm
Posts: 790
Location: Montauk, NY
wow those pipes are really low, would hate to be driving that car and rip the exhaust out the bottom.

_________________
-Ken
1983 Audi Quattro
1995.5 S6 Avant -daily-


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 6:36 pm 
Offline
mach 2 with my hair on fire

Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:06 pm
Posts: 2621
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Google "Fox Kit Car" or maybe Jose Vincente or Sakis Hadjiminas.

Eurosport Manhattan built a semi-infamous VW Fox that was AWD and used a 12v with a pair of turbos (with 24mm restrictors!) and later a single turbo, and still later natural aspiration.

From what I gather, it had problems more often than it didn't, but when it was running strong, it was RUNNING STRONG.

Later, those guys fixed an Impreza's drivetrain issues by swapping an 016 and other Audi bits in it. I still want to know how they rigged up a starter.

_________________
Image
My name is Elmer Fudd, millionaire. I have a mansion and a yacht.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 6:44 pm 
Offline
I post, therefore I am
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:37 pm
Posts: 12466
Location: new hampshire
Noisy Cricket wrote:
Later, those guys fixed an Impreza's drivetrain issues by swapping an 016 and other Audi bits in it. I still want to know how they rigged up a starter.


yah now that would be good to know

_________________
BEAST http://www.theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=193#p37887
DD '86 4kq BLAZE, swapping aba/16vT and O1E http://www.theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=201#p38264
'86 4kq - 3b'd = gone http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?t=25432


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 12:04 am 
Offline
I sprinkle rubber on my Cherios

Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:55 pm
Posts: 263
Location: New Zealand
I quite like the idea of turboing the 12v, they are cheap and plentiful, could do the piping abit tidier and flip the intake manifold to have the tb at the front


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:34 am 
Offline
I post, therefore I am
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:53 pm
Posts: 4820
Location: Johnson, VT
death 4kqt wrote:
how old are those pictures? there is a blue b4 in the local junkyard that was rumored to once have a 12v turbo setup. Does not have a motor now.



I know the car you're talking about and have heard the same.. the car pictured doesn't have the white engine bay though

_________________
Casey O

Current Attire:
-1991 200 20vt - GT35 and 24psi
-2003 A4 1.8T Daily Driver
-1996 Audi Cabriolet 5 Speed Wife's Project


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:37 am 
Offline
I post, therefore I am
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:19 am
Posts: 7430
Location: sideways into a snowbank, VT
WOMBAT wrote:
death 4kqt wrote:
how old are those pictures? there is a blue b4 in the local junkyard that was rumored to once have a 12v turbo setup. Does not have a motor now.



I know the car you're talking about and have heard the same.. the car pictured doesn't have the white engine bay though

ah right, that one in Ratties was nogaro sprayed over white right? You know anything more about that car?

_________________
Dana

-1990 90q 1.9tdi swap in progress
-4kq efi 10vt<- sold
-99.5 f250 6-speed superdooty diesel
-1990 90q 20vt: 3b swap >sold
-1990 90q 20vt: 11.7 @124.5 >sold
lots of other audis that are long gone


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:55 am 
Offline
I post, therefore I am
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:53 pm
Posts: 4820
Location: Johnson, VT
Not even sure it was nogaro, but yea could be. I didn't get any info other than it was a 12vt and was owned by someone in st. albans

_________________
Casey O

Current Attire:
-1991 200 20vt - GT35 and 24psi
-2003 A4 1.8T Daily Driver
-1996 Audi Cabriolet 5 Speed Wife's Project


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:55 am 
Offline
I post, therefore I am
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:53 pm
Posts: 4820
Location: Johnson, VT
WOMBAT wrote:
Not even sure it was nogaro, but yea could be. I didn't get any info other than it was a 12vt and was owned by someone in st. albans



There's still a part of me that wants a clean B4 with black sport cloth... turbo is always nice. For the sake of a 12v though, I'd probably remote mount it.

_________________
Casey O

Current Attire:
-1991 200 20vt - GT35 and 24psi
-2003 A4 1.8T Daily Driver
-1996 Audi Cabriolet 5 Speed Wife's Project


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 9:52 am 
Offline
Stuck in first

Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:49 am
Posts: 15
Location: Philadelphia, PA
WOMBAT wrote:
Not even sure it was nogaro, but yea could be. I didn't get any info other than it was a 12vt and was owned by someone in st. albans

Hey all, I post on Dubsnorth as vr6inside. You Vermont guys may recognize me. I worked on that Nogaro B4 back in my dealership days when I was in VT, and I remember it having the white bay. It wasnt turbo'd then but it had euro lights and some wacky body kit as I recall. This was around '02-'03.

edit: didnt realize this was my first post. Guess I've been lurking quite a while.

_________________
84 GTI/86 4kq/92 Golf VR6T/97 GTI 2.0/98 GTI VR6/12 GTI


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:36 am 
Offline
I sprinkle rubber on my Cherios

Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 326
The pictures of a car from Canada. The owner was a customer of mine from way back in the day. I probably still have pictures and emails from the owner. I believe his name was Rob.

Quote:
edit: didnt realize this was my first post. Guess I've been lurking quite a while.


There goes the neighborhood...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 9:29 am 
Offline
mach 2 with my hair on fire

Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:39 am
Posts: 1298
Location: Mount Vernon, OH
Noisy Cricket wrote:
Google "Fox Kit Car" or maybe Jose Vincente or Sakis Hadjiminas.

Eurosport Manhattan built a semi-infamous VW Fox that was AWD and used a 12v with a pair of turbos (with 24mm restrictors!) and later a single turbo, and still later natural aspiration.

From what I gather, it had problems more often than it didn't, but when it was running strong, it was RUNNING STRONG.

Later, those guys fixed an Impreza's drivetrain issues by swapping an 016 and other Audi bits in it. I still want to know how they rigged up a starter.



I think that Fox Wagon was a 30v V6.

Brendan

_________________
'93 Corrado SLC
'05 New Beetle TDI
'86 Golf Diesel, rebuilt engine w/ turbo
'81 Scirocco 'S <-TDI swap soon!


Top
 Profile Facebook 
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 9:45 am 
Offline
mach 2 with my hair on fire

Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:06 pm
Posts: 2621
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Lord_Verminaard wrote:
I think that Fox Wagon was a 30v V6.


Jose Vincente says it was a 12 valve.

_________________
Image
My name is Elmer Fudd, millionaire. I have a mansion and a yacht.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 9:48 am 
Offline
mach 2 with my hair on fire
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:12 am
Posts: 2083
Location: Boise ID
Every rumor about the Sakis Hadjiminas fox says it was a 12v fire breathing monster that sometimes got asthma

_________________
MK1 GTI
89 80 quattro rally project


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 7:15 am 
Offline
mach 2 with my hair on fire

Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:39 am
Posts: 1298
Location: Mount Vernon, OH
Noisy Cricket wrote:
Lord_Verminaard wrote:
I think that Fox Wagon was a 30v V6.


Jose Vincente says it was a 12 valve.


Well there you go. :) Thanks for the clarification. I thought '99 passats had the 30v.

Brendan

_________________
'93 Corrado SLC
'05 New Beetle TDI
'86 Golf Diesel, rebuilt engine w/ turbo
'81 Scirocco 'S <-TDI swap soon!


Top
 Profile Facebook 
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:53 am 
Offline
I sprinkle rubber on my Cherios

Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:55 pm
Posts: 263
Location: New Zealand
Anyone know of any other 12v turbo;s?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:45 am 
Offline
I post, therefore I am
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:23 am
Posts: 4868
Location: Meriden, CT
I remember seeing those pics in the 12v forum on AW a long time ago.

seems cool but there isnt much support for the 12v at all. if it were me I would look for a 30v (which I'm sure are getting cheap now) and use 2.7T parts and even ECU/harness wth a tune, on it.

probably wouldn't cost much more than (properly) engineering a turbo setup for the 12v and will just be a lot cleaner.

_________________
XLR8
Image
2003 540i/6 M-Tech #1090/1265 Spring/Summer/Fall
2001 330Cic/A Fiance-mobile
1991 200 20v Winter/Utility


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:28 am 
Offline
I post, therefore I am
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:05 pm
Posts: 4377
Location: Sobbing in the corner.....
Justin517 wrote:
I remember seeing those pics in the 12v forum on AW a long time ago.

seems cool but there isnt much support for the 12v at all. if it were me I would look for a 30v (which I'm sure are getting cheap now) and use 2.7T parts and even ECU/harness wth a tune, on it.

probably wouldn't cost much more than (properly) engineering a turbo setup for the 12v and will just be a lot cleaner.


screw the ecu.

12v or 30v tuning formula that works.

stack headgaskets, upsize injectors 30%

remote mount the turbo under the rear seat, toss the resonators.

plumb a good catchcan separator, and run its vent line to the turbo inlet or to atmosphere depending on what you like.
make sure the rest of the intake system is ok for boost. dont forget a decent scavange pump for the turbo oil return.

run a greddy emanage ultimate connect it to intercept the ignition and fuel lines, add a map sensor and you are ready to tune. also needed is an ignition line impeadance chip (i can show you how to make it for 50 cents)
the emanage ultimate gives 100% total control over the fuel and timing is adjustable aswell, even valve timing if equipped! the only thing you need to do is modulate the maf signal so the engine does throw codes.
its like stand alone that uses the stock ecu for the simpler duties.

once everything is running, start tuning the turbo by changing the A/R ratio with different exhaust housings. boom done.

i do not know how it could be cheaper or simpler. you virtually need next to nothing in fab or hardware and it can be installed on any v6 or smaller cylinder count vehicle in a weekend if you have all the parts. and the best part is you retain alot of factory components and tuning for awesome reliability and simplicty in tuning, starting, warmup, driving, idling, cruise efficiency and emissions.

OH YES THE BITCHNG AWeSOME PART!! 100%%%%%% OBD2 COMPATIBLE!!! the emission man can come but he is not gonna find anything if you know what you are doing.

_________________
Nate's Law:
The greater the number of people in the group, the lower the total collective, and individual intelligence of said group becomes.


Audi, imprisoning me, all that i see, absolute horror. I cannot live, i cannot die, trapped in my audi, my audi my holding cell..

1988 Audi 5ktq - 10vt Ms&s Extra <- sold then someone killed it.
1993 Audi 90q - 12vt


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:10 am 
Offline
I post, therefore I am
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:23 am
Posts: 4868
Location: Meriden, CT
cool info nate!

I wonder if you could also do a bit more primitive like I am on my M30 BMW... Begi FMU, bit bigger injectors (24s up from 19s), moates/ostrich 2.0 eprom emulator to adjust AFR targets... I'm using a real turbo mani but a rear mount would be possible.

your way is cleaner but I went with the way I have seen done more, I like the idea of emanage though, cant beat having a MAP sensor with forced induction...

_________________
XLR8
Image
2003 540i/6 M-Tech #1090/1265 Spring/Summer/Fall
2001 330Cic/A Fiance-mobile
1991 200 20v Winter/Utility


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:12 pm 
Offline
I post, therefore I am
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:05 pm
Posts: 4377
Location: Sobbing in the corner.....
Justin517 wrote:
cool info nate!

I wonder if you could also do a bit more primitive like I am on my M30 BMW... Begi FMU, bit bigger injectors (24s up from 19s), moates/ostrich 2.0 eprom emulator to adjust AFR targets... I'm using a real turbo mani but a rear mount would be possible.

your way is cleaner but I went with the way I have seen done more, I like the idea of emanage though, cant beat having a MAP sensor with forced induction...


The emanage ultimate will work with basically ANY ecu on the planet. I've seen ford escorts, honda preludes, and cavelier/sunfires turbo'd with the more primitive things even primitive interceptors like the "darling" apexi AFC but they are all worthless when trying to make it work perfectly. They all suffered from drivability problems, improper or incomplete tuning, and more often then not, screaming check engine lamps.
The only real way to do it is with standalone or an interceptor capable of remapping the injector lines and ignition lines directly like a greddy emanage ultimate. Basically the EM/U uses the ignition lines and injector lines as a "suggested amount, suggested time" input, and it does its thing changing it when needed or leaving it be when not needed. Its great because of the amount of features the thing has packed into it.

I dunno how but i scored an amazing deal by getting mine with the universal harness and map sensor for 500 dollars. I just checked and prices for those things have skyrocketed. Considering what it is, I'd still pay a grand for it, especially if i was for a car that had to be OBD2 compliant.

The only thing I dislike about it is it doesnt really have boost control (but you can cheat and make it do it).

_________________
Nate's Law:
The greater the number of people in the group, the lower the total collective, and individual intelligence of said group becomes.


Audi, imprisoning me, all that i see, absolute horror. I cannot live, i cannot die, trapped in my audi, my audi my holding cell..

1988 Audi 5ktq - 10vt Ms&s Extra <- sold then someone killed it.
1993 Audi 90q - 12vt


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:38 pm 
Offline
I post, therefore I am
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 7:15 pm
Posts: 4831
Location: Akron/Cleveland, OH
Lord_Verminaard wrote:
Noisy Cricket wrote:
Lord_Verminaard wrote:
I think that Fox Wagon was a 30v V6.


Jose Vincente says it was a 12 valve.


Well there you go. :) Thanks for the clarification. I thought '99 passats had the 30v.

Brendan
You are correct, Passats and A4's both got the 30v mid-year 1998..

_________________
91 200tq Titan/Blk AAN-powered
94 urs4 Blk/Blk
95 urs6 Cashmere/Black
91 V8q MANUAL Cyclamen/Grey
86 Scirocco 2.8 VR6 Yellow/Blk
90 CQ Red/Blk
98 Gti VR6-t Maroon/Blk

http://www.germanautopros.com
Image


Top
 Profile Facebook 
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 12v turbo
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:18 pm 
Offline
mach 2 with my hair on fire
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:15 pm
Posts: 2407
Location: Greenwood, IN
Nate,
I wonder how difficult it would be to fit the V6 ECM from a GM vehicle. The system allows GOBS of tuning possibilities and OBD II compliance. I'm sure a Gen 4 Camaro/Firebird setup could be pared down to pretty slim and installed without too much difficulty.

Eric

_________________
Born4Rings is my little brother
:.: Vorsprung Durch Technik :.: Audi Quattro :.: The Unfair Advantage :.:
Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement. - Arthur Bishop "The Mechanic"
Dyed in the wool, washed in the blood : μολὼν λαβέ starting a collection


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 69 posts ] Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Search this topic:
motorgeek.com :: Board index :: The Tech Lounge :: Abnormally aspirated

Jump to:  



Information

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests



You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
cron
  |  It is currently Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:32 pm
Share |