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IIc hiccup.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:28 pm 
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samx wrote:
but the tach (driven off of IIc) will drop a few hundred RPMs for a second or so.

@ idle? or just cruising?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:47 am 
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Mine drops the tach too when this happens. It will drop a couple hundred rpm while cruising around 3k rpm.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:33 am 
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123quattro wrote:
Mine drops the tach too when this happens. It will drop a couple hundred rpm while cruising around 3k rpm.


It acctually goes to ZERO for a split second, but since the needle can't move that fast on the tach you only see a few hundred RPM dip.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:39 am 
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I meant the actual tach in my car. I've never got a log of it to see what the tach output would be.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:54 am 
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My car has same problem, it even did hick up on a dyno at high boost and under the load.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:00 am 
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fasterthenrs2 wrote:
My car has same problem, it even did hick up on a dyno at high boost and under the load.


:stupid:

I would say that it was just that one ignition wire letting go but this really felt like a complete cutout, eg all cylinders stopping fire. I checked the logs, in his case WDBG was solid during the breakup.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:21 am 
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Hmm, after reading these posts, I think I had the same thing happen a couple times on track. At the time I thought it was a fuel cutout due to low fuel level in the tank, and prolonged hard cornering. It was a real hard hit, then gone. It only happened once or twice each day, so I added fuel, and didn't look into it further.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:20 am 
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Wizard-of-OD wrote:
samx wrote:
but the tach (driven off of IIc) will drop a few hundred RPMs for a second or so.

@ idle? or just cruising?

At cruise and at idle. When it happens at idle, the engine just shuts off. During cruise, it's just a hiccup but the engine is able to recover.

It's possible that the tach signal is actually dropping to zero, but I haven't logged it to verify.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:17 pm 
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When my ECM does it at idle the engine stalls out. When my ECM does it under light throttle or moderate throttle I have a total loss of power and I think my tachometer drops either completely or a few hundred rpm... then after a few secconds of no response to the gas pedal and no engine sounds being produced I get a nice Kaboom backfire type sound... that is it, the ECM must then be cycled to restore sync and any sort of engine operation. My memory is not fresh as I've not driven the car in some weeks since my ECM is with 034 for testing.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:31 pm 
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Is anybody that is experiencing these problems using a hall sensor on the pickup wheel or is everyone using VR sensors? I can see VR problems at low speeds, as the signal generated is proportional to speed. The reason I ask is that I am thinking about changing to a hall sensor. We are having to much problems with the VR signal at cranking speeds.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:58 pm 
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I've considered switching to a hall sender from a VR... but I then need to have an adapter machined ... I drafted such an item for my engine block, iirc it was like thirty something mm outside diameter with a securing screw. If the signal of the VR sender is sufficient for a motronic ECM why is it not sufficient for the IIc???

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:17 pm 
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*sigh*

VR Sensors are indeed perfectly adequate for the IIc, they're used on 99.99% of all the installs with any of the Ic or IIc systems. The only time a hall sensor is usually considered is if there's a bit more run-out than normal, the hall sensor can sometimes compensate for that a little better in some applications.

FWIW I can read the crank speed down to well below 50rpm on the test bench (1.8t block, no pistons, spun with an electric drill typically) with a VR sensor regularly. The hardest part is keeping the crank rotating consistantly so there's no stops, fooling the ECU into thinking there's a missing tooth.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:10 pm 
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Hey everyone, I just wanted to say a quick word to address any misconceptions or un-necessary concerns and also to assure that we're on top of this.

When we finish a beta version of 034EFI software, like ANY software on the market, its full of bugs that need to be fixed. We thoroughly test every software revision extensively via software, test bench and real world, for hundreds if not thousands of hours - and this is why your 034EFI product works as intended and so well.

Every once in a while, a bug makes it past the testing phase and needs to be fixed or addressed, and this is typically because its so rare, hard to find and difficult to replicate.

The glitch that some of you are describing is one such bug, I say some as there are other issues like VR pickups or tuning that are totally unrelated to this bug.

What the bug is - its a extremely fast "resetting" of the rpm counter inside the ECU processor somewhere, after a certain amount of running time. We've only observed it once in an actual data log its so rare. From what we saw, the ECU simply did not fire several cylinder events, was able to start counting again and running back to normal. We've never observed it above 3500rpm, typically from idle to the 2-3k rpm range, and on average every 4-6 hours of running time. Its related to rpm, not load, and typically happens below 3k rpm.

We don't fully understand exactly what's happening inside the ECU (obviously or we would have fixed it by now). Its NOT dangerous, you can't blow up you motor because of the bug, and not trying to underplay it, its a superficial running condition that's more of a slight annoyance than anything - if at idle your motor could die, if on the freeway its a quick .25 second hiccup and then back to normal running.

80tq exhibits the same bug, Christian's Coupe does too as well as our new A4 Time Attack car - all these cars HEAVILY, EXTENSIVELY abused and flogged to an inch of their life, always running flawlessly (as tuned) under full load within their powerbands.

With that said, we FULLY intend to fix this as quickly as possible, our full software development effort is now dedicated to fixing this bug and getting users updates with a full fix. We are actually developing software tools to more accurately log every function inside the processor to better understand and fix this as quickly as possible.

Just to assure anyone, there is no reason to be alarmed, you can still drive the holy SHEEITE out of your car worry free with the same reliability and tuning accuracy 034EFI has always delivered.

If you have any concerns, please bring them to my attention at javad@034motorsport.com, and as soon as we have an update all users will be notified.

Thanks everyone,

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:48 pm 
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:thanks: Nice to see you guys step up so some of us don't go crazy blaming our tuning. We have the same issues at Bosch, I completely understand. Hopefully you guys will come to a resolution soon!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:32 pm 
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Thanks for assurance Javad. I do have a follow up question to this though. How do I log WDBG numbers? I was just out for a ide and did some logging but none of the data collecte shows WDBG number?? What am I missing/doing wrong?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:30 pm 
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Are you on the latest firmware (V1.01) and using the most recent software on your laptop as well?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:35 pm 
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also FWIW, I dont think the ecu plotter draws the WDBG graph. Open the CSV file in excel and look at the column headers to see if any of them are WDBG.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:53 pm 
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a4kquattro wrote:
also FWIW, I dont think the ecu plotter draws the WDBG graph. Open the CSV file in excel and look at the column headers to see if any of them are WDBG.


Pretty sure it does, at least on mine.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:55 pm 
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a4kquattro wrote:
also FWIW, I dont think the ecu plotter draws the WDBG graph. Open the CSV file in excel and look at the column headers to see if any of them are WDBG.
It's definitely there. Just un-check all the other items on the plotter and you'll see the WDBG plot being drawn on it's own. Unplug your VR sensor and I'm sure you'll see a dip ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:39 am 
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newt wrote:
a4kquattro wrote:
also FWIW, I dont think the ecu plotter draws the WDBG graph. Open the CSV file in excel and look at the column headers to see if any of them are WDBG.
It's definitely there. Just un-check all the other items on the plotter and you'll see the WDBG plot being drawn on it's own. Unplug your VR sensor and I'm sure you'll see a dip ;)


by ECU plotter, I mean the software on motorgeek.com that I just linked to :-P

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:51 am 
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Thanks for the post Javad.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:13 am 
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Are you on the latest firmware (V1.01) and using the most recent software on your laptop as well?

Nate, I am on the old firmware....not sure what software you are referring to. I do plan on upgrading this firmware though.

Quote:
also FWIW, I dont think the ecu plotter draws the WDBG graph. Open the CSV file in excel and look at the column headers to see if any of them are WDBG.

I think you are right - I don't have it as an option on the plotter, but I did try opening .csv file and looking at the columns but it wasn't there. I rememberd to look there because I have seen some people post, Phil specifically, the file with those numbers there.

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Just un-check all the other items on the plotter and you'll see the WDBG plot being drawn on it's own.

Thanks nate - I'll try that for now, until I upgrade.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:27 am 
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a_CQ wrote:
Quote:
Are you on the latest firmware (V1.01) and using the most recent software on your laptop as well?

Nate, I am on the old firmware....not sure what software you are referring to. I do plan on upgrading this firmware though.


You need the new firmware/software to log the wdbg if I remember right and I think this is what Nate is referring too.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:54 am 
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a4kquattro wrote:
newt wrote:
a4kquattro wrote:
also FWIW, I dont think the ecu plotter draws the WDBG graph. Open the CSV file in excel and look at the column headers to see if any of them are WDBG.
It's definitely there. Just un-check all the other items on the plotter and you'll see the WDBG plot being drawn on it's own. Unplug your VR sensor and I'm sure you'll see a dip ;)


by ECU plotter, I mean the software on motorgeek.com that I just linked to :-P
Hate to burst yer bubble there too, but: Image

It's there as well... ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:24 am 
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oh snap!

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