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Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro

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 Post subject: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:19 am 
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Finally was able to find an Ur Quattro, after many times of offering cash and being told "not for sale" I found one in Texas from an audi enthusiast some of you might know, anh had the car transported up here to Washington.

The car was advertised in non-running condition needing some CIS and/or Wiring work and came with a ton of extra parts, including a 3B in need of a rebuild.



So here's the story on the car.
It was purchased from the first owner in 2002 by the previous owner who had it garaged and was running until he did some work to swap in a later 4000 fuse board and thinks maybe something pulled loose after or the diagrams are likely wrong. The interior is gutted to get to the wiring, most of the dash is out. He sourced a 3B to do the swap (needs rebuilt) and never go the 10vt running, so the car sat for years in a garage and eventually became for sale.

Excerpt from for sale ad:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Non running at the moment.
84 Fusebox under hood.
84 4K parking brakes.
late 83 diff controls.
Car has been garage kept since 2007.
spent a year outside under car cover.
Bough in 2002ish from New Jersey.
Dr. Bernardino's old car. I think he was the original owner.

Assortment of parts obviously.(no rally parts)
$10K.
Will throw in 3b engine that needs rebuild.
3b engine wiring harness.
RR airbox
Euro bumpers F+R
15x8 ronals refinished
15x8 BBS
Sloped Euro Cibies, three or four. Enough for a set.
Sloped front grill.
Mocha Leather interior
good floor carpet from a black 4K.
Clean title.
Rust on Shock towers has been welded up and POR-15
10V engine is in the car.
non cracked dashes.
X2 white vinyl rear wing uncracked.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spent some time trying to come up with a plan and spoke to a few enthusiasts regarding what to do (fix CIS? or start swap? 6sp vs. 5 spd? etc)

Decided to immediately tear down the 3B and get it to the shop to get hot tanked and get the bores checked, and proceed with some valve work and what not on the head.
Then take a look at CIS. This way if I can't get the CIS to run it wont matter, because I'll have acquired much of the stuff I need for the 3B and will proceed with that then.

Using this are as a "scratch paper" to document my goals/questions/though for where I want to car to be in the future and where it is currently:

PHASE 1:
-Clean up, change fluids and battery, do some quick troubleshooting on the 10v. It had air and fuel. Need to find out why it wouldn't spark.
-If the CIS looks like a dead end, then proceed with pulling the engine now and execute phase 2.

Phase 2:
-Source parts to rebuild 3B (top/bottom end gasket set, upgraded rods, t-belt, arp head studs, resurface head and block) . There was a broken cam pulley/t-belt so may have been some interference. (9/3/15 Ordered parts. Head valves for Cyl 2 and 4 did hit the pistons. Will be doing wither 3B head with new valves or AAN head. AAN looks to be in better shape. Will verify with the machine shop tomorrow.)
-3B Engine swap (Engine rebuild in progress 9/3/15)
-VEMS Econoseal with custom VEMS harness (ordered)

Phase 3:
-Upgrade suspension
-Upgrade brakes (want this thing to stop like my s4 does)

Phase 4:
-Forward Facing intake manifold (will do a custom one using TIG / T6061 Aluminum)
-Custom exhaust
-Custom Exhaust manifold
-upgrade Turbo
-01E or "TDI" 6 speed
-Ultimate goal is 400 Wheel, should be easily obtainable and I want to build this car in such a way to leave me more headroom if I want to go up.

Parts:
New fuel filter - 09-05-15
New Ignition Coil - 09/06/15


Couple of pics.
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Last edited by Afterthought on Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:40 am 
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Some pics of the general condition of the car as it was delivered. Last week.
Cosmetic attention needed as it appears to have been covered in paint overspray, will take some serious elbow grease but that can be fixed. Most importantly, the body is straight and has no dents!

At one point the front fenders were pulled off and the shock towers were fixed, the fenders were lined with por-15 on the inside which is a cool idea.

Exterior:
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Pulled off a Fender to see what the preventative POR-15 rust repair looked like:
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Couple quick shots of the interior:
Its all there, but the front of carpet is out, lower dash and glovebox is out to access wiring. Cluster, etc. out
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Current state of the engine bay:
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Underside:
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One problem area to note:
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Spares:
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SQ manifold. Has a crack.
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RR airbox
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3B and harness:
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The 3B engine sustained some contact to the front, enough to break the cam sprocket. More to come on that.

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1983 Ur Quattro, White/Mocha. http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=78665
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 Post subject: Re: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:44 am 
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Took some time today to work on the car, no power to the windows so I used a wire and battery to roll up the drivers side window so I could push it outside to pressure wash the car...
There looks to be paint yellowish paint overspray over the whole car and windows. Everything except the front fenders since they were off. Not sure how I'm going to get that off.
Started washing until a lightning storm went directly over my house then the power went out. So I got to work pulling the 3B apart by flashlight.
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The valves on#2 and #4 have a visible mark where they contacted the pistons. So I'm either going to put new Ferrea valves in this head, or use my spare AAN head with stock valves.

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Looks like this plastic cover and the cam gear were the only casualties of the contact on the front pf the engine.

Image

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1985 & 1986 4000 http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=142634


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 Post subject: Re: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:46 am 
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Finished getting the engine down to just the block.
I have been really happy with everything I have seen so far which is great news. I don't want to have a single worry about this engine when it goes together.
The bearings all appear to be stock to me but I'll have to measure/
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No major scoring on the surfaces anywhere.
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1983 Ur Quattro, White/Mocha. http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=78665
1985 & 1986 4000 http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=142634


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 Post subject: Re: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:58 am 
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Wiring time>
So I've cleared up a few things.
My car has the factory flange installed for the underhood fuse box and since my vin is #603 and it is one of the first ones to come with this.
At some point the PO noticed some hot spots on the bottom of the factory fuse panel so he swapped it over to a later 4000 fuse panel, after doing this the car would not start. So what I have should be very close to the 85 turbo quattro but may not match the diagrams 100% since these were hand wired.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jh.666/wiring/relays.png Harness from an 85 turbo quattro.

This is what I've got under the hood.
Image

Handy link.
http://forums.quattroworld.com/quattro/msgs/957.phtml

Sat 9/5/15: Worked on the wiring a bit today.
Upon receiving the car I installed the instrument cluster and had no lights or anything on it, no appearance of power anywhere other than brake lights.

Today I found my extra fuse panel from a 1995 audi 90. The panel is almost identical so I used this to help me with the orientation since I cant flip the one inside the car upside down, comparing with my diagrams of how everything should be. I changed only one terminal as far as I know and now have power to the inst. cluster.

I had a buddy drop by so I used his help for a minute to test the power at the fuel pump (have +12v with ignition on) and the power to the ignition coil (have +12v with ignition on) When cranking the fuel pump will turn on, but the ignition coil out is not producing a spark.

Also, Sounds to me like when I am cranking the fuel pump is only bumping on every few seconds? Which I don't think is right...

Sunday 9/6/15:
Installed new ignition coil, no change. Trying to troubleshoot if the issue is wiring and fusebox related (most likely) or just a bad Ign. module.
Tested the following per phil payne's website.
-have +12v ignition on between Pin 2 and 4 on the ignition module plug
-pin 1 at the ignition module plug has continuity to pin 1 of the coil. So that wire is good.
-pin 2 at the ignition module and body ground have good continuity.
-pin 4 of the ignition module plug has continuity to pin "15" on the coil.
-Pin 6 on ignition module plug has continuity to ECU pin.


So this should tell me that the wiring is good from the ecu and "pos" to the coil. But I am a little thrown off by the fuel pump not staying on while cranking.

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1983 Ur Quattro, White/Mocha. http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=78665
1985 & 1986 4000 http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=142634


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 Post subject: Re: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:27 am 
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Impressive!
Might be time to get that chassis on a rotating table to clean the underside. I am going through the same thing now with a Coupe.

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 Post subject: Re: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:48 am 
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Looks like James sold you a good solid car.
It should be a great project!

It will be worth it in the end.

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 Post subject: Re: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:25 am 
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Wizard-of-OD wrote:
Impressive!
Might be time to get that chassis on a rotating table to clean the underside. I am going through the same thing now with a Coupe.


It will need some attention but some preventative work was done at least. I have a spare set of fenders for the front so I'll see which is in better shape . I don't have a rotating table, what do you use?

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1983 Ur Quattro, White/Mocha. http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=78665
1985 & 1986 4000 http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=142634


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 Post subject: Re: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:22 pm 
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Afterthought wrote:
Wizard-of-OD wrote:
Impressive!
Might be time to get that chassis on a rotating table to clean the underside. I am going through the same thing now with a Coupe.


It will need some attention but some preventative work was done at least. I have a spare set of fenders for the front so I'll see which is in better shape . I don't have a rotating table, what do you use?

Make one using 2 engine stands.

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 Post subject: Re: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:50 pm 
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sepp wrote:
Looks like James sold you a good solid car.
It should be a great project!

It will be worth it in the end.

It ill clean up well!
Looking forward to doing the 3B swap on this and going a different route that I did on my previous 1990 coupe.

You're in Portland, huh? Seems like are quite a few Audi guys down in in that area!

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1983 Ur Quattro, White/Mocha. http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=78665
1985 & 1986 4000 http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=142634


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 Post subject: Re: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:17 pm 
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:-D Yes! There's a strong number of urq's in the PNW. 15 or so..

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 Post subject: Re: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:09 pm 
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sepp wrote:
:-D Yes! There's a strong number of urq's in the PNW. 15 or so..

Aren't there a couple of turbo 4000's down there too, or no?
I have a friend who used to work at sunset Audi as a tech. But that was years ago. Had a turbo 4000 unfinished project that I got from him, one of my first cars. First turbo car. From there it was downhill Ha.
Anyway I remember him talking about some of the older Audi stuff down there and with SJM autotechnic and other places down there seems like there is a good bit of knowledge and appreciation for the older cars!

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 Post subject: Re: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:17 pm 
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Afterthought wrote:
sepp wrote:
:-D Yes! There's a strong number of urq's in the PNW. 15 or so..

Aren't there a couple of turbo 4000's down there too, or no?
I have a friend who used to work at sunset Audi as a tech. But that was years ago. Had a turbo 4000 unfinished project that I got from him, one of my first cars. First turbo car. From there it was downhill Ha.
Anyway I remember him talking about some of the older Audi stuff down there and with SJM autotechnic and other places down there seems like there is a good bit of knowledge and appreciation for the older cars!


I think there were at least 3 20vt 4kq's at Audi Expo this year. There's a few 10vt 4kq's around too.

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1992 Porsche 968 (07K transplant in progress)
1983 Aud UrQ (20vt swap in progress)
1995 Audi 90QS (Previously 32v V8, now AEB 1.8T)
1986 Audi Coupe GT (7A swapped and more)
2010 VW Touareg TDI (DD, tow rig)
2001 Ducati ST4
Past Audis: 87 CGT, 87 4kcsq, 93 S4, 90 CQ, 87 5ktq, 95.5 S6Avant, 86 CGT CE
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 Post subject: Re: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:02 pm 
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Well this morning I decided I'm done fiddledicking around with CIS.
It's at the point where its going to cost me more money and time to get it up and going with the WX, and my ultimate goal was 3B anyways so I'm proceeding on to that now.
Started getting the CIS out of the way, Radiator out, disconnected drive shaft. Now I'm stuck on tie rods, Seems like there is no way these are coming off. After disconnecting all the fuel lines I didn't feel like using a torch right there but I did everything short of that (with what tools I had)

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Going to try and find something for the tie rod. Then get everything out of the engine bay and so some paint touch up.

What's the thought on brake booster conversion to vacuum? Is it necesary? is it a good idea?

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1983 Ur Quattro, White/Mocha. http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=78665
1985 & 1986 4000 http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=142634


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 Post subject: Re: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:34 am 
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For the tie rod connection to the rack, there are nuts below the rack on the bolts that hold the tie rods in. The rack is threaded, and the nuts below act at jam nuts to lock the bolts in place. Remove the nuts below, and then you'll be able to remove the bolts from above.

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 Post subject: Re: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:14 am 
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Congrats on the acquisition and best of luck on the build. If that's your workspace on your property...that's Badass!

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 Post subject: Re: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:53 am 
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Berserker wrote:
For the tie rod connection to the rack, there are nuts below the rack on the bolts that hold the tie rods in. The rack is threaded, and the nuts below act at jam nuts to lock the bolts in place. Remove the nuts below, and then you'll be able to remove the bolts from above.


Thank you sir. I didnt realize the top was threaded too. However which way I think I still have to get the ends off to drop the suspension out. Suppose I could try to take the inner ends off and go from there. What I think I need is a tie rod/ ball joint separator tool from the auto store. Should make quick work of that.

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 Post subject: Re: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:55 am 
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DFrosty wrote:
Congrats on the acquisition and best of luck on the build. If that's your workspace on your property...that's Badass!

Thanks buddy. Got really lucky when I found my place, had an empty 3600 SQft shop on it, looked at the house and immediately put in an offer.

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1983 Ur Quattro, White/Mocha. http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=78665
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 Post subject: Inner Fenders..
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:58 pm 
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IF you have your fenders off, would be a good time to install the plastic inner fender linesrs form a 4k or coupe.

IS the reason that 4k & coupes don't rust up in the strut and upper fender areas, that are common problem areas on the urq..

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 Post subject: Re: Inner Fenders..
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:30 am 
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Katman wrote:
IF you have your fenders off, would be a good time to install the plastic inner fender linesrs form a 4k or coupe.

IS the reason that 4k & coupes don't rust up in the strut and upper fender areas, that are common problem areas on the urq..


Frank, yes they are both off currently and I'd love to fit some liners in there.
I Need to find a 4000 parts car!

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 Post subject: Re: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 6:36 am 
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Just hit the arm on the strut where the tie rod goes through, try and avoid hitting the boot. A few good whacks and it will fall right out. I assume it's steel like a 4kq. I do this all the time works for ball joints too.


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 Post subject: Re: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:45 pm 
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dustin4kq wrote:
Just hit the arm on the strut where the tie rod goes through, try and avoid hitting the boot. A few good whacks and it will fall right out. I assume it's steel like a 4kq. I do this all the time works for ball joints too.

I will try it. But probably going to stop and get the tool anyways if I can remember.

Found a 4000 brake booster so I will try and see if i can track down a part number for the Master cylinder I will want to go with that. I think it's out of a 90-91 200Q or V8, can anyone confirm?

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 Post subject: Re: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:05 pm 
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Quite a few updates here that I was slacking on.
Removed stock 10vt
Painted engine bay (started as what was going to be some "touch up" with a spray can and got out of hand)
Painted front fenders and euro bumpers

"Paint correction"

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Lacquer thinner to clean up the windows
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The top:
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Passenger side:
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This is after one pass with Meguiar's Diamond Cut 2.0:
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After one pass with the eraser pad.
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The overspray on the drivers door is so thick I honestly don't know how to get it off. Maybe lacquer thinner? If applied carefully


Painting fenders
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Painting engine Bay
This is what happens when you think "I'll find a can or aerosol paint to touch up the engine bay a bit."
The result is a complete respray of the engine bay in factory color.

Engine bay was completely sanded and prepped for days, then wiped down with dirt and grease remover, wiped dry, blown dry.
Then wiped down with a tack rag. Then sprayed in sealer.
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Coated in factory paint.
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:07 pm 
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Had to get the car moved off the lift to do something to my 4000, so time to get the suspension on.

Extracting a broken bolt for the rear ball joint
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Completed strut
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In the car
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Spherical Comp Brake mounts from Marc. These are awesome
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Starting to re-install things in the engine bay
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Fronts together
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Nice to see the car back on the ground. need to do some work to the suspension but next thing to tackle on the Coupe is the Brakes.
Image
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Afterthought's 83 Ur Quattro
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:09 pm 
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Engine stuff
Not sure exactly where I left off but I started to re-flange my manifold to V-Band this morning to facilitate running the EFR turbo which is V-Band in/out.
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I can't remember who makes this manifold as I got it from another forum member but the only issue fitting up is I had to shorten one stud and there is kind of a sequence for getting the manifold partway on then adding the nuts on two spots in the bottom- as the runners are so close to the stud.
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On the engine I don't have the AAN Cam sprocket bolt and It's not the same as the 10VT WX bolt so I'm going to have to track one down.
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Got it all snug and will leave this here for now until I start fabbing a downpipe.
Need to find a suitable puller to get the stock pilot bearing out of the 3B and put the correct one in there, then I can get the clutch on and trans in.

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Afterthought

Current:
1983 Ur Quattro, White/Mocha. http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=78665
1985 & 1986 4000 http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=142634


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