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Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread

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 Post subject: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:31 am
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Location: Denver CO
Hey folks of Motorgeek...

My name is Brendan and I am the owner of DA900269, an Alpine White 1983 UrQ with more than 240k on the clock. The car found me in December of 2011 from a local who had owned it from very nearly new, whom had traded his 911SC for the car when both were much younger. To my knowledge, I am owner number 3.

The Car: In my 5 years with the car, it has asked very little of me. I have given it oil, gas, insurance and a few minor touchups, i.e. a radio head unit to match all my other cars, a body colored spoiler, a fuel pump, fuel filter, injectors and accumulator trying to chase the hot starts (I am convinced you can't win with the WX) and a seat dye job to touch up. I can still start it up and drive it just about anywhere today, which has been awesome. The car currently shares daily driver duty with a 1987.5 Audi Coupe GT, a 1981 DeLorean DMC-12, a 1991 Nissan Skyline GT-R, and my Mk-7 Golf GTI.

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A certain proprieter of the B2 Resource was kind enough to provide my dealer info from Audi (Thanks Mike!);

Vehicle Data Basic Data
Make: A
VIN: WAUDC0859DA900269
Model Year: 1983
Description: Description not found
Sales Type: 857422
Delivery date: Dec 23, 1982
Leasing: No
Engine Code: WX
Transmission Code:
Colors TYPE COLOR CODE
LACQUER NUMBER (LACQUER BODY/ROOF NO.)
DESCRIPTION
Exterior (Body/roof)
P1/P1 ALPINWEISS/ALPINWEISS
Interior TK Description not found
PR-Numbers
CON. NO. NO. ORIGIN FAMILY DESCRIPTION
1 253 O Description not found
2 425 O Description not found
3 560 O STAHLKURBELHEBEDACH HERAUSNEHMBAR
4 749 O Description not found
5 R82 O Description not found


The car does have some foibles and I am looking to correct these as best as I can as I go through my project;
-I have a rust spot on my passenger side fender at the mating surface with the inner fender that is starting to make me nervous.
-The WX occasionally stumbles. It will be towards the end of a 1 hr or more drive under load, such as pulling away from a stoplight, the car will cut for maybe half a second and then resume as though nothing was wrong. Plugs are new and the fuel work aforementioned was performed chasing this idiosyncracy.
-The Power steering is leaky. It appears to be the bomb, and the leak is getting worse as time goes on.
-The diffs have a mind of their own. They were repaired from a completely inop state, but have a tendency to engage when the car gets on boost.
-The clearcoat is blowing off my paint in places, the current paintjob is showing signs of a few small spots of scale rust etc that need to be corrected.

This will be a long post and I am still not sure its the right time to post, but I need to start getting my plan down on paper. I am pursuing a pretty grandiose plan and I don't know how it is going to turn out/things are still flexible as I am trying to get a plan of attack solidified, but I would love feedback from you all, the folks in the know.

The Plan: This is the fun part, but also the part that I am the weakest on. I have a set of goals and general thoughts on how I want to get there, but the details in many cases are not fully hashed out. My goal is to make a nice street car with decent but not crazy power to continue putting miles on with occasional autocross and maybe a track day in it. I'd like to do the body work to a degree in which I am not afraid to take it out in snow for fear of the rust monster (I currently still do, I just feel bad afterwards). All in all, a fun quick UrQ with some nice updates.

-Engine/Driveline: I plan on going 20VT like many folks before me have. I have a donor 1991 200 20v with 140,000 on the clock. As a goal, I'd like to attempt to make 300-350 horsepower. I know I will need a turbo (had my eye on GT2871R from 034), and Rods, and would have the head redone while the engine is out of the donor. I am also considering rebuilding the bottom end when I do the rods just to have a completely solid starting point. In another thread, the board has pointed me towards using a 7A exhaust cam. Other supporting modifications people have suggested my way are an improved exhaust manifold and injectors/fuel pump. My biggest stumbling block is management currently; I know that the 3B ECU is not as versatile as an AAN ECU as far as putting tuneable management into the car. To manage the car properly, it seems like I will need to convert the engine to Coil on plug, using the distributor on the 3B for the Crank Position Sensor. VEMS is certainly an option I am considering now, I am just concerned about my lack of experience with tuning. Either way, getting it all to play nice and work right is a big question mark I am hoping some of you with experience may have a pointer or two on. I know there are other gotchas such as getting the tach signal to work from the 3B into the UrQ's binnacle.

I get alot of differing opinions on the transmission. The 016 in the car is still solid aside from the crazydiffs. Others have told me to go with a six-speed 01E to improve driveability. I am on the fence on this one because I think having a 6 speed would be cool and nice for road tripping, but I don't know if this would be a road trip car either.

-Body and Paint: I have been talked down by everyone I've suggested it to from painting the car Mars Red. It will stay alpine. My first errand once the WX is out of the car is to mask off the engine bay and get the engine bay cleaned up and painted at the body shop. I am currently in the process of ordering a Sport Quattro LWB body kit from ACM.SE (http://www.acm-ab.se/audi/sportquattro/sportquattro-kit/1071) pending a few more discussions with people who have fitted them (a few folks have been kind enough to walk me through what a splendid pain in the arse bonded panels are). Its probably sacrilege to some folks out there, but its the way I've always wanted the car to look. I was inspired by 2B's red car and how drop dead gorgeous it turned out. Hopefully I can come up with something half as attractive! I have experience working on fiberglass from my misadventures with my DeLorean, and I am looking forward to the hours of sanding and fitment ahead on this kit. I expect to encounter a lot of resistance with mounting for the front and rear bumpers and creating new core supports up front. I don't have the kit in front of me and haven't been able to start figuring it out, but in speaking with someone who has it sounds like it will be a thinker. When the kit is hung, I will get the car resprayed in Alpine white. I will also get rid of my sets of 8" Ronal R8s and 7" Ronal Basketweaves and hopefully pick up a set of the Compomotive Sport Quattro wheels that 2B has reproduced.

-Brakes: I will convert to vacuum brakes from a coupe GT, as the bomb is the culprit for my leak. I'd love for my e-brake to work again. I have considered trying to figure out the Porsche 17z calipers for this but will need to see how funds look as I go along on this.

-Interior: I always enjoy working on interiors the most, and I have something cool planned for this. I have sourced a set of period Recaro idealseats with heat and lumbar and power features in the thigh bolster, and am currently having them upholstered. I am doing white center inserts to match the paint contrasted with mocha bolsters to match the color of the original seats, with netted headrests.

A buddy put together a mockup for the upholsterer below;

Image

I am having the inserts pleated to match the old seats coming out, and will mount to the car via Volkswagen mk.2 recaro trophy seat bases. I will have the rears upholstered to match. I also plan to get rid of my old style dash cap. I have a late style dash cap and supplies that I yanked from a junkyard car standing by, my plan is to dye the dash to match the brown centerstack/rest of the interior, and rewire to late style switchgear. I plan to clean the bejesus out of the HVAC hosing and old carpets to hopefully get the musty smell out.

This is my general plan and I am trying to develop my thoughts. Getting the engine parts list put together and how to get to where I'd like my power to be is my biggest point where I am missing direction. I intend to reach out to the folks at EFIExpress and hopefully find a solution, I emailed back and forth with Marc a few weeks ago and he really seems to know his stuff. I will post updates as they come, I am still in the phase of acquiring parts, building my engine components mentally etc but hope to drop the WX engine in February.

Leftovers: If I pull off what I am aiming for, I will have a fair few leftovers from the car that will be available. I'll sell as much of it as I can to help offset the cost of the project. Here's what I see as likely to be out there/available if everything goes to plan;

-Front UrQ Fenders, passenger has a small rust spot
-Rear UrQ Fenders as removed from the car
-Front and Rear US UrQ Bumpers
-UrQ Mocha Leather front and back seats set in decent shape (7/10).
-Early Mocha Dash cap in 3/10 shape.
-UrQ "Turbo" script steering wheel in 8/10 shape
-Early style dash switches
-UrQ Quad Headlights setup
-Restored H1/H4 Cibie Flats
-Running WX, and associated CIS bits with K26 Turbo. Possibly 016 Transmission. Motor has a KH head likely due to a failure in 1991. My records show a rebuild by John Beckius of Sport Wheels in '91 at a cost of ~$10k.
-Ronal 15"x7" Basketweaves in serviceable shape with dead summer tires on them
-Ronal 15"x8" R8s in great shape in Bronze with blizzaks on them
-Several old OE Audi factory head units

Anyways, looking forward to your feedback and if anyone has advice I would love some guidance, especially as far as the motor goes.

Cheers and thanks for reading!


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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:06 pm 
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www.quattro.ca
82 Ur-q - SQ project, long term
82 4000 2-door
83 80 q - Euro 2-door!!
85 Ur-q - Euro with 3B
86 4000 quattro with 59,000km on the clock
86 5000CD quattro avant, all original
91 CQ winter sled
93 90q - 2.5TDI, 6-speed
93 80q Avant - 2.5TDI, 6-speed in the works
94 S2 Avant, stock


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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:01 pm 
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This sounds like it's going to be a great project!

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91' Lancia Delta Integrale 16v,
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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:47 am 
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Thanks Fellas.

I'd be interested in discussing what to pick up for the motor in depth with just about anyone who will listen, especially 3B gurus. I am bumping into alot of info that conflicts and want to get my plan put together. Has anyone here converted a 3B to run AAN management, and was it straightforward?

Or would it just be less hassle to go straight to VEMS? My only concern is I do not know how to tune. I know there are resources out there for this but I just wouldn't want to play with a setting incorrectly and grenade my motor.


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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:10 pm 
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FPBBrandon wrote:
Thanks Fellas.

I'd be interested in discussing what to pick up for the motor in depth with just about anyone who will listen, especially 3B gurus. I am bumping into alot of info that conflicts and want to get my plan put together. Has anyone here converted a 3B to run AAN management, and was it straightforward?

Or would it just be less hassle to go straight to VEMS? My only concern is I do not know how to tune. I know there are resources out there for this but I just wouldn't want to play with a setting incorrectly and grenade my motor.


Brandon,
A few thoughts..
On the 3B, you can reach your power goals easily.

I personally really like the VEMS. I can expand more on why if you're interested, But in short- your intake piping will be simplified, no need for a maf. run whatever combination of turbo, manifold, injectors, exhaust, etc you want and tune the car to run good with that exact setup in your climate. I am new to tuning and it is very easy interface to use.
A second option if you really don't want to risk it, have someone tune the car for you. I don't know where you're located and I'm betting there is someone around, or can do remote tunes as well. It really opens up the option

On the 3B, almost everything you have will be usable for that car and that swap. My 4000 thread is on here and on another forum with plenty of pics detailing what I did- to sum it up I am running:
-3B intake, Adapter piece from Hank for PS pump
-3B style V-Belt setup, No AC, Stock 4000 radiator
-7A oil pan
-URQ intercooler
-no cutting on any of the metal in the car (core support ETC)

If you choose to you can also run AAN serpentine belt setup but consider that early in the project as the crank pulley and all the accessory brackets are different for that. I did run the serp. belt on my last coupe and it was really nice setup. I plan to run this in my URQ as well.

Transmission, if you are staying under 400 WHP I've been told that you should not have an issue running the stock URQ trans and it may work out to where you like it. that depends on your driving style.
For driving around town which I do alot of, I actually feel like I might prefer the 5-speed as I feel like I am shifting less with it where the 6 speed 01E in the 1-2-3 gear area the ratios are not as favorable. At least I feel like that is the case?? "IMHO!" However, If I drove highway all day, and if i had endless money I would get the TDI 01E, and never have any concern of damaging it if I turn the power up.
For my 4000 I am running wide 1st 01E 5-speed and have one for my URQ as well but I'm actually putting it together with the stock trans.

I don't have a for sure answer on the head, but what I am using is an AAN engine and harness. The 3B head uses a distributor instead of CPS, and with VEMS believe you can use the distributor t to run a trigger for the cam position *I think* or also use the AAN cam gear with the shutter wheel on it but I think attaching the cam position sensor to the front of the head might be difficult.

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Current:
1983 Ur Quattro, White/Mocha. http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=78665
1985 & 1986 4000 http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=142634


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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:31 am
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Afterthought wrote:
FPBBrandon wrote:
Thanks Fellas.

I'd be interested in discussing what to pick up for the motor in depth with just about anyone who will listen, especially 3B gurus. I am bumping into alot of info that conflicts and want to get my plan put together. Has anyone here converted a 3B to run AAN management, and was it straightforward?

Or would it just be less hassle to go straight to VEMS? My only concern is I do not know how to tune. I know there are resources out there for this but I just wouldn't want to play with a setting incorrectly and grenade my motor.


Brandon,
A few thoughts..
On the 3B, you can reach your power goals easily.

I personally really like the VEMS. I can expand more on why if you're interested, But in short- your intake piping will be simplified, no need for a maf. run whatever combination of turbo, manifold, injectors, exhaust, etc you want and tune the car to run good with that exact setup in your climate. I am new to tuning and it is very easy interface to use.
A second option if you really don't want to risk it, have someone tune the car for you. I don't know where you're located and I'm betting there is someone around, or can do remote tunes as well. It really opens up the option

On the 3B, almost everything you have will be usable for that car and that swap. My 4000 thread is on here and on another forum with plenty of pics detailing what I did- to sum it up I am running:
-3B intake, Adapter piece from Hank for PS pump
-3B style V-Belt setup, No AC, Stock 4000 radiator
-7A oil pan
-URQ intercooler
-no cutting on any of the metal in the car (core support ETC)

If you choose to you can also run AAN serpentine belt setup but consider that early in the project as the crank pulley and all the accessory brackets are different for that. I did run the serp. belt on my last coupe and it was really nice setup. I plan to run this in my URQ as well.

Transmission, if you are staying under 400 WHP I've been told that you should not have an issue running the stock URQ trans and it may work out to where you like it. that depends on your driving style.
For driving around town which I do alot of, I actually feel like I might prefer the 5-speed as I feel like I am shifting less with it where the 6 speed 01E in the 1-2-3 gear area the ratios are not as favorable. At least I feel like that is the case?? "IMHO!" However, If I drove highway all day, and if i had endless money I would get the TDI 01E, and never have any concern of damaging it if I turn the power up.
For my 4000 I am running wide 1st 01E 5-speed and have one for my URQ as well but I'm actually putting it together with the stock trans.

I don't have a for sure answer on the head, but what I am using is an AAN engine and harness. The 3B head uses a distributor instead of CPS, and with VEMS believe you can use the distributor t to run a trigger for the cam position *I think* or also use the AAN cam gear with the shutter wheel on it but I think attaching the cam position sensor to the front of the head might be difficult.


Thank you Sir. I remember you spoke to much of that in the engine thread I posted awhile back. I would ABSOLUTELY love to hear more on your experiences with VEMS, the more I read the more it seems like it lifts many of the headaches that come with using the older ECU from the 3B, namely being able to tune to whatever is bolted onto the car turbo and fueling wise.

I had an email exchange with Marc Swanson about a month ago, and he mentioned that you can wire the crank position sensor to the 3B distributor, and that gets you the ability to run coil per cylinder.

I also noticed there is a VEMS plug and play that Marc offers that kind of seems to be the easy button here, but I don't know if that is meant to work with the distributor or the car needs to be converted to coils. I have read that depending on the distributor rotor used on the 3B in "High Horsepower" applications, it can contact two points in the distributor and cause issues. I don't know if the levels I am looking for count as high horsepower, but it is doubling the stock output of the motor from the factory so I'd assume I'd be in danger there.

I ordered my Mk.2 Recaro bases today, so I can count that as a tiny droplet of progress. Hoping to get engine parts on order by the time January is done! My parts car situation got a little iffy today, so I may be back out looking for another donor soon, fingers crossed things don't fall apart on the 200 I have had reserved or I can find another.


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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:32 pm 
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I have done exactly what you are planning. I ran 3b for several years and decided I wanted to run COP because there were more tuning options. Rewiring twice was not fun - I spliced 3b & AAN harnesses together and originally was going to use the distributor for cam sensor but decided to just swap the head for AAN. If we're to do it again I would also go with an AAN from the start and use the serp belt. My power goals are also modest - tuned RS2, and I want daily drive-ability in traffic. I had a bad ecu at the beginning so I went with Marc's VEMS setup. He tunes it perfectly for an easy start up. I am in the minority though- I moved back to motronic because getting the throttle to roll on unicely under light load was all I spent my time trying to get right. I found I was busy trying to diagnose the tune rather than just enjoy driving. I also lived at 11,000 ft and drove to 5,000 ft regularly and despite what the experts say, VEMS does not do well with big altitude changes. I ended up going with a custom tuned AAN Ecu from Marc and it works great.

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'83 UrQ 20VT


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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:34 pm 
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I also love the seat idea - I have been planning something very similar for mine!

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'83 UrQ 20VT


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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:35 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:14 pm
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FPBBrandon wrote:
Afterthought wrote:
FPBBrandon wrote:
Thanks Fellas.

I'd be interested in discussing what to pick up for the motor in depth with just about anyone who will listen, especially 3B gurus. I am bumping into alot of info that conflicts and want to get my plan put together. Has anyone here converted a 3B to run AAN management, and was it straightforward?

Or would it just be less hassle to go straight to VEMS? My only concern is I do not know how to tune. I know there are resources out there for this but I just wouldn't want to play with a setting incorrectly and grenade my motor.


Brandon,
A few thoughts..
On the 3B, you can reach your power goals easily.

I personally really like the VEMS. I can expand more on why if you're interested, But in short- your intake piping will be simplified, no need for a maf. run whatever combination of turbo, manifold, injectors, exhaust, etc you want and tune the car to run good with that exact setup in your climate. I am new to tuning and it is very easy interface to use.
A second option if you really don't want to risk it, have someone tune the car for you. I don't know where you're located and I'm betting there is someone around, or can do remote tunes as well. It really opens up the option

On the 3B, almost everything you have will be usable for that car and that swap. My 4000 thread is on here and on another forum with plenty of pics detailing what I did- to sum it up I am running:
-3B intake, Adapter piece from Hank for PS pump
-3B style V-Belt setup, No AC, Stock 4000 radiator
-7A oil pan
-URQ intercooler
-no cutting on any of the metal in the car (core support ETC)

If you choose to you can also run AAN serpentine belt setup but consider that early in the project as the crank pulley and all the accessory brackets are different for that. I did run the serp. belt on my last coupe and it was really nice setup. I plan to run this in my URQ as well.

Transmission, if you are staying under 400 WHP I've been told that you should not have an issue running the stock URQ trans and it may work out to where you like it. that depends on your driving style.
For driving around town which I do alot of, I actually feel like I might prefer the 5-speed as I feel like I am shifting less with it where the 6 speed 01E in the 1-2-3 gear area the ratios are not as favorable. At least I feel like that is the case?? "IMHO!" However, If I drove highway all day, and if i had endless money I would get the TDI 01E, and never have any concern of damaging it if I turn the power up.
For my 4000 I am running wide 1st 01E 5-speed and have one for my URQ as well but I'm actually putting it together with the stock trans.

I don't have a for sure answer on the head, but what I am using is an AAN engine and harness. The 3B head uses a distributor instead of CPS, and with VEMS believe you can use the distributor t to run a trigger for the cam position *I think* or also use the AAN cam gear with the shutter wheel on it but I think attaching the cam position sensor to the front of the head might be difficult.


Thank you Sir. I remember you spoke to much of that in the engine thread I posted awhile back. I would ABSOLUTELY love to hear more on your experiences with VEMS, the more I read the more it seems like it lifts many of the headaches that come with using the older ECU from the 3B, namely being able to tune to whatever is bolted onto the car turbo and fueling wise.

I had an email exchange with Marc Swanson about a month ago, and he mentioned that you can wire the crank position sensor to the 3B distributor, and that gets you the ability to run coil per cylinder.

I also noticed there is a VEMS plug and play that Marc offers that kind of seems to be the easy button here, but I don't know if that is meant to work with the distributor or the car needs to be converted to coils. I have read that depending on the distributor rotor used on the 3B in "High Horsepower" applications, it can contact two points in the distributor and cause issues. I don't know if the levels I am looking for count as high horsepower, but it is doubling the stock output of the motor from the factory so I'd assume I'd be in danger there.

I ordered my Mk.2 Recaro bases today, so I can count that as a tiny droplet of progress. Hoping to get engine parts on order by the time January is done! My parts car situation got a little iffy today, so I may be back out looking for another donor soon, fingers crossed things don't fall apart on the 200 I have had reserved or I can find another.


VEMS plug and play is most likely not the best because it is made to plug right into an AAN harness but that's Marc's specialty not mine so he can speak better to it.

With the harnesses you have multiple different options and the computers as well.
If you like wiring , you can buy a VEMS harness from Marc that is 80% complete but you have to add in all of the connectors.
If you like wiring less , you can splice and AAN or 3B harness into your car. I spliced in AAN , Six connections at the fusebox to be running ( also the cheapest option).
If you don't like wiring at all You can have Marc build a custom harness for you that will
Basically be plug and play.
With any custom harness, you'd be using the econoseal ECU, which is I think almost half the price of the AAN plug and play. So that does offset the cost of the harness you buy.

If you're weary of doing the initial settings, Marc will set those things up for you once he knows what kind of trigger and settings you're running. With the information I gave him , my ecu showed up and I just had to plug it in run through his 2 pages or so of instructions , and the car will start . But I don't want to make it sound like that's it, from there you should have a good base tune that takes lots of work to get perfect for your cAr.

The best place to start with that is to talk to him and let him know your goals and budget , etc. For me he laid out all of the options and I was able to choose from there.

As Rick mentioned above there are probably some advantages to Motronic custom
Tune and retaining some of the features of the stock ECU- I just like the VEMS because I like to tweak with things .


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Current:
1983 Ur Quattro, White/Mocha. http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=78665
1985 & 1986 4000 http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=142634


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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:51 pm 
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Yeah, another +1 for Marc. I'm having a custom harness made for my 10vt EFI conversion. He is worth the wait, believe me.

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88' Peugeot 205 GTI,
91' Lancia Delta Integrale 16v,
2015 RAM 1500 ecodiesel Quattro support vehicleImage


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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:12 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:35 am
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2 thumbs up for VEMS via Marc. My dad had installed a stock 3B into his '84 4Kq, and my brother and I bought him a VEMS plug-n-play variant with CoP conversion last year for Christmas. It was a pretty smooth switch-over. and he recently dyno'ed 330hp @ wheels after addition of RS2 goodies plus some tuning by Marc.
As for wiring, the 3B harness wasn't too bad to modify, just time consuming to understand the differences and build it up.
In contrast, my '82 urq is running the fully factory AAN harness and ECU and the thing is a mess/trainwreck/disaster. I think it will take all of 2017 to wrestle that beast into a livable form factor. Maybe after my Eiche-ified AAN ECU comes back with the extra mojo then I'll be happier.

Re: transmission, I vote to stay with the 016 -> K.I.S.S. It is robust and works without any re-engineering.

Good luck!
Eric


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:47 am 
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impretzle wrote:
Yeah, another +1 for Marc. I'm having a custom harness made for my 10vt EFI conversion. He is worth the wait, believe me.

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-Brief aside; I spent about 2 hours hanging out with your car in the building at Carlisle this year. It looks amazing and its the right color (I'd be painting my car T-red or mars but my friends keep stopping me from doing so). Credit where its due!

-More generally; Sounds like there is alot going for EFI express. I was originally looking to use Mr. Eiche for harness work initially but I think I may try to get Marc on the phone in the next few days and see what he can do. It really is sounding like VEMS is the way to go. Also, I've seen a fair few people using the antilag feature in VEMS and that is a neat toy...


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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:57 am 
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The GT-R is new isn't it? Post a pic or two ;)

What dye kit did you use for the seats? I could use a touch up on my rear seats and will eventually need to dye some front seats when I decide what to put in, since my fronts are very worn.

Yours being an early '83, it looks like it still has the under-dash fusebox, might I highly recommend updating it to the later under-hood style. I'm doing this now in my car and using a late Coupe GT body harness/fusebox. It's a major PITA (cheap, but very time consuming), but if you're going to have the engine and interior out I think it's worth the extra effort.

+1 for sticking with the stock 016 for <400hp. It has better gearing and shifts better than an 01E, and unless you find a diesel 3.89 01E (which the ratios aren't great for a gas engine) then you'll need to swap out the rear diff for a 4kq 4.11 one.

If you don't go VEMS, definitely convert the 3B to run on the AAN ECU. You can do a little re-pinning plus make a coil sub-harness and actually use the 3B harness (ECU connectors are the same), but it's probably easier to just find an AAN (or ABY) harness to use. Like others have said, you can convert the 3B distributor hall sensor to run the CPS, or with some light fab skills (making a small aluminum block and tapping two holes IIRC) you can ad the cam sensor to the 3B head. Chris (varia) has a good write up on adding the CPS to a 7A/3B head. I'm also with durq, I'd try and stay Motronic if you can, especially if you aren't comfortable doing tuning yourself. Especially being in CO with lots of weather and altitude changes, it can take a long time to get it tuned to cope with all of that and run nicely in all situations.

One thing to think about is do you want to run E85 to hit your power goals or not? That'll determine some fuel system requirements and turbo selection.
I'd recommend looking into an EFR turbo. If you run E85, you can have a turbo (6258) that spools as quick as a stock K24 and makes 400whp. Hank makes some nice KKK to v-band adapters so you can run a stock style manifold. For your power goals I'd recommend an RS2 manifold.
From Iroz's website:
Quote:
EFR6258-Full boost by 3100 rpm, 310whp on pump 91 and 400whp on e85 or race fuel

EFR6758-Full boost by 3500 rpm, 340whp on pump 91 and 450whp on e85 or race fuel

EFR7163-Full boost by 3850, 360whp on pump 91 and 495whp on e85 or race fuel

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1992 Porsche 968 (07K transplant in progress)
1983 Aud UrQ (20vt swap in progress)
1995 Audi 90QS (Previously 32v V8, now AEB 1.8T)
1986 Audi Coupe GT (7A swapped and more)
2010 VW Touareg TDI (DD, tow rig)
2001 Ducati ST4
Past Audis: 87 CGT, 87 4kcsq, 93 S4, 90 CQ, 87 5ktq, 95.5 S6Avant, 86 CGT CE
Past P-cars: 80 931, 87 924S, 87 951


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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:37 am 
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Having swapped an AAN into my URQ if I were to do it again I would go VEMS and either build my own harness or use the AAN/3b harness and shorten/repin it. I was able to get it routed neatly and get almost all of the factory functionality out of it(havent messed with figuring out the diagnostic wiring) but it took a ton of work and I could easily cut out 3 feet of wiring.

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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:21 am 
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Mentosman42 wrote:
Having swapped an AAN into my URQ if I were to do it again I would go VEMS and either build my own harness or use the AAN/3b harness and shorten/repin it. I was able to get it routed neatly and get almost all of the factory functionality out of it(havent messed with figuring out the diagnostic wiring) but it took a ton of work and I could easily cut out 3 feet of wiring.

The VEMS harness that Marc sells is really cool too. But not as cheap an option . I am going to use that because as you mentioned it's everything you need and nothing you don't


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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:29 pm 
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OOOOGT wrote:
The GT-R is new isn't it? Post a pic or two ;)


Sure thing, and it is reasonably new. I sold off my Bitter SC and my Celica and picked up my R32 in October. Was originally black, had it painted a later R34 Bayside Blue before it came to me on the truck. Fun stories there, happy to elaborate more on all of the above when I get off work.

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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:23 pm 
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I have a minor update to share. I bought my donor today!

I got a 1991 200 Avant, which absolutely kills me. About 270,000 indicated with a grenaded transmission. Its a little rough but all the interior is there, the car as a whole is pretty roached. The motor was super clean and seemed to run strong when I ran it at the sellers house, and the motor already has 034 silicon on it all over the place and a G60 conversion done to replace the UFOs. I feel a little bad murdering an Avant, I always wanted a 200 wagon to actually have. I would have preferred to kill the sedan I originally thought I had but circumstances changed.

Here's the donor, I didnt get much of a chance to take pictures sadly, but the craigslist photoshoot will do.

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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:20 pm 
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It's for a good cause ! Unless you like the feeling of driving around something that handles like a huge waterbed . You could always sell or give away the roller . That's what I did with my donor didnt have the heart to part it so got it to someone that had the means to do rust repair and wanted a project


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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:31 am 
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OOOOGT wrote:
The GT-R is new isn't it? Post a pic or two ;)

What dye kit did you use for the seats? I could use a touch up on my rear seats and will eventually need to dye some front seats when I decide what to put in, since my fronts are very worn.

[/quote]

So far, the dye is photoshopped. I ordered my seats from an eBay vendor called recaromax. He is located in poland and has a pretty big stockpile of very cool old vintage recaro seats. When he sells them, he also offers to reupholster to spec. He doesn't take cash up front aside from $100 to reserve your pair of seats and had decent ebay feedback and an active facebook presence, so what the heck. Heres his FB account;

https://www.facebook.com/RecaroMax1/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The pair will be pricey, but I am excited to see how they come up, he is going to match the UrQ pleating in the center section and they will be covered in new leather. All the power functions are purported to work well (I will finally have heated seats in my Ur!) My trophy bases came in yesterday as well.

Afterthought wrote:
It's for a good cause ! Unless you like the feeling of driving around something that handles like a huge waterbed . You could always sell or give away the roller . That's what I did with my donor didnt have the heart to part it so got it to someone that had the means to do rust repair and wanted a project


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Thanks for the encouragement, I will try to do that. I have a soft spot for avants, even if they are california king waterbeds.

I pushed the button on my sport panels last night! The outfit is called ACM in Sweden, and a member on quattroworld pointed me their way (thanks Keith!). Every person I have spoken to has said its going to be a nightmare job, so at least there's no unreasonable expectations there. Not looking forward to cutting my rear quarters off, thats going to be... nerve wracking.

I ordered the full kit standard mounting for ~$2,500. It is at the link below;

http://www.acm-ab.se/full-kit-audi-spor ... wb-/2894-0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Its also a logistical nightmare to get to the US since it is a huge package. The warehouse that loans us space for our DeLoreans is a custom logistics company and I'll be using them to get the kit over. All in it will be approximately $4k to get all the body panels in front of me. Again, pricey but it is what I wanted to build so worth it to me!

I finally called and spoke with Mark at EFI Express. It was a great call and Marc put my mind at ease as to how to attack my motor build to get to the goals I was looking at. He suggested an EFR 6758 with E85 capability, on one of his harnesses to run to an econoseal ECU. Also doing rods, exhaust manifold, downpipe, injectors and a few other things with a refresh of the motor. Sounds like the car ought to have spool and lag characteristics similar to the UrQ as it is now, just with alot more power on boost. Marc is slammed though so it sounds like it'll be awhile before he starts filling my order.

The shopping part is an exciting time! My 200 is coming to Denver tomorrow to start getting picked over as well :D


Last edited by FPBBrandon on Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:59 pm 
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shopping time is fun time. but it is VERY easy to get caught up spending loads of cash. I'm finishing up my 'buying' stage and feel like i've spent a lot but done well and have some decent parts to show for it. I certainly didn't go 'as big' on a lot of the stuff as you did, but i'm excited about watching your project unfold!

I went with recaros as well, but not as fancy:

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'95 S6 Avant '04 A4 Avant '95 90 quattro


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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:20 pm 
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Hybrid_Hatch wrote:
shopping time is fun time. but it is VERY easy to get caught up spending loads of cash. I'm finishing up my 'buying' stage and feel like i've spent a lot but done well and have some decent parts to show for it. I certainly didn't go 'as big' on a lot of the stuff as you did, but i'm excited about watching your project unfold!

I went with recaros as well, but not as fancy:

Image


Those are going to be sweet! I am not sure I have seen the insert pattern on those before, but they look wel. Plate red and comfortable. I love recaros!

I wanted to tie the idea of my urq seats over to my coupe GT, where I got ahold of some mouton door cards and lucked into a set of old recaros with body colored center panels. I love that interior so much, and I hope this one will be better!

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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:47 pm 
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Mouton or just commemorative edition door cards?

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'95 S6 Avant '04 A4 Avant '95 90 quattro


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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:23 pm 
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Hybrid_Hatch wrote:
Mouton or just commemorative edition door cards?


Hm, didn't know there was a distinction. I thought she was who they were commemorating with the CE Cars?


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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:15 pm 
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FPBBrandon wrote:
Hybrid_Hatch wrote:
Mouton or just commemorative edition door cards?


Hm, didn't know there was a distinction. I thought she was who they were commemorating with the CE Cars?


I thought it was the olympics they were commemorating

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 Post subject: Re: Brendan's 1983 Audi quattro Project Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:46 pm 
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Hybrid_Hatch wrote:

I thought it was the olympics they were commemorating


Hmm, I poked around and all I can find is this Audi Club NA article referring to red leather as Mouton Red.

https://audiclubna.org/content/1986-audi-coupe-gt

Unsure what they were happy enough to commemorate with B2s in 1986, but 1986 was a great year and I am glad they were having a good time (I was born in May '86 so I am biased). My door cards we're commemorative car cards harvested by a buddy of mine in his junkyard divings.


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