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Dubsmith's 4000cs 20vt... What Update! Such 5 Lug!!!

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 Post subject: Dubsmith's 4000cs 20vt... What Update! Such 5 Lug!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:34 am 
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kickin' tires'n lightin fires
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Well i guess I'll post up my current project that has been inspired by the various 20vt projects going on at the moment. This whole thing came about with much debate after wrecking my 200 wagon. :( It shall live again! Hopefully....

So awhile back now I began pulling the motor and trans from the avant. I quickly started looking for a nice 4k to drop it into. I came upon one up near seattle for $300. Around 120k, blown headgasket. Perfect. I had no way of getting down to portland. So I hit up the one and only Derracuda. He's sold me a few things in the past and dispensed much audi knowledge. So he brought it down here for a small fee. :-) (thanks again man!) Took a few pics when we got back....

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I'll be doing a few upgrades to the motor before it goes back in the 4k.
RS2 EM
Spec stg2 clutch
Light weight lifters (one was bad, so what the heck. Replace them all)
Some new seals
IM spacer
Windage tray
Some other stuff TBA

Now I'm starting to pull the motor apart to replace some things and i've run into a few setbacks. One of the exhaust studs broke off in the head. No bueno. Also the motor was loosing a bit of oil. I thought it all was from a oil leak at the back of the motor. But i guess it was burning it too...

Exhaust side
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Different port
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I never saw it smoke. It's like this in 3 of the cylinders. I haven't checked the intake side. So now i'm in the posistion of trying to decide if i should have the head rebuilt, or just replace the valve seals with the head on the car. I am already pulling the cams and replacing the lifters anyway. Of course i'm trying to save as much money as i can on this project. Maybe the new seals will go bad quickly because of the worn guides? I haven't had a chance to do a compression test yet but i will be doing that shortly. But a few questions.

1. I'm replacing the knock sensors. Is there a cheaper alternative to the $$$ stockers?
2. I'm taking the cams out and replacing the timing belt. Can i do the T-belt with the motor out of the car? Or should i wait?
3. What size is the crank pulley bolt?
4. 034 mentioned something about slotting bolts to make the windage try work? Whats the deal?

More pics!

'Brass gear?
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Lamesauce
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Le mess
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There shall be more TBA!!!
:bump:

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Last edited by dubsmith on Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:45 pm, edited 64 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:24 am 
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That 4kq is CLEAN, not a ding/dent on it anywhere and for the sum of $300, damn, good deal. Please do not cut the front of the car to get the old engine out/new one in.

As for as the 20V goes, yes I would put in new guides/seals. The optimal time to do the timing belt would be now, with the engine out of the car.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:31 am 
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:stupid:

Very clean indeed. Should make any awesome project.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:49 am 
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:stupid:

Crank bolt should be a 27mm

What a steal on the 4k too!! I need to get one from out west, all of them are rusted here. But then I would have to stay out there to keep it rust free :roll: :-D .

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Last edited by Alloutofdonuts on Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:06 pm 
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Yeah for $300 it's in very good shape. Although not quite as good as the pics make it out to be. It was a AZ car so there is lots of clearcoat peel on the roof. A couple small dings, nothing crazy. Busted headlights. The interior is a little trashy.

So to do the timing belt out of the car I'll need the tool to hold the main pully no?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:20 pm 
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That's a plastic dizzy gear in your pic.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:30 pm 
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Nice 4kq for sure, it even has the OEM mudflaps, very rare for sure...

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:36 pm 
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I really need to get me a nice 4kq before they're all owned by motorgeekers and there's no deals left to be had!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:40 pm 
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that was a steal of a deal... i'll say. i was ready to buy it if backed out :P

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:07 pm 
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derracuda wrote:
that was a steal of a deal... i'll say. i was ready to buy it if backed out :P

"IT FELL OFF THE TRAILER, OH NO! I'm real real sorry, but i'm short on time and I need to start a new project thread...Bye"

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:14 pm 
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dubsmith wrote:
Yeah for $300 it's in very good shape. Although not quite as good as the pics make it out to be. It was a AZ car so there is lots of clearcoat peel on the roof. A couple small dings, nothing crazy. Busted headlights. The interior is a little trashy.

So to do the timing belt out of the car I'll need the tool to hold the main pully no?
I'd rather have peeling clearcoat then rust/rot like a North East car. I love that color, whatever it is called, the dark anthricite metallic. As far as the timing belt, you should be able to zip off the crank pulley with a good impact gun being powered by a compressor with some nut. My buddy removed his crank pulley with the engine out of the car, and just kept wacking the rachet with a mallet until it broke free. Me, I'd rather load the engine in a truck and take it to a machine shop and have them zip it off then wack at it for hours on end.

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Last edited by Quattro Krant on Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:17 pm 
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those exaust ports make me feel great about the state that mine are in.


Last edited by reckless1 on Tue May 04, 2010 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:49 pm 
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I am really looking forward to seeing how this project goes as I plan doing it as well. Not gonna lie I'm scared to get my feet wet at this point.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:30 pm 
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I'd load the motor up and take it to someone or someplace that has air tools to take off the crank pulley. We tried the whole wrench and wack method but in the end it was easier to load it up and take it to the local garage. We just showed up with the right socket and asked, and they helped us out.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:09 am 
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there's no place to hook a pulley holder on that crank pulley? I just did the timing on a jeep and used a pulley holder and a big tube over the ratchet handle to break it loose. I think the tool was maybe 20 bucks and I've used it for all kinds of crap since then. it's got two hooks to catch on bolts and two pins that you can fit in just about anything on the pulley to hold it. great for turning the engine over manually.


Last edited by reckless1 on Tue May 04, 2010 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:24 am 
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The crank pulley has a notch in it for the factory crank locking tool. Others have just made variations of it out of pipe and stuff. I have the factory tools so I never have a problem.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:38 am 
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dubsmith wrote:
Busted headlights.


I have a minty set from an '86 CGT if you're interested :)

As for the rest, just use a pry bar or make yourself an OEM tool to hold the crank pully and just pop it off. That's what I did for mine... that and the jack handle to give me some added leverage :)

Real nice 4kq though... look forward to seeing it progress!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:53 am 
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If you have air tools, you will need something with more than 400lb-ft in reverse. My old gun had 400-450lb-ft reverse and it wouldn't back out a crank bolt. My new gun is more like 650lb-ft or something like that, and as long as the compressor has the guts to run that CFM consumption it zips them out. My home compressor will probably put my new gun at like 450lb-ft (guess I need a second compressor!). Our 220V 1-phase shop compressor probably puts it at 550+. The air system at work would make it 650+++ (three or four 3-phase compressors with a few hundred gallons of tanks).

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:58 am 
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Quattro Krant wrote:
I'd rather have peeling clearcoat then rust/rot like a North East car.

:stupid: X ImageIN-FIN-EH-TIE(Cartman voice lol)


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have them wack at it for hours on end.
:jerk: ....hours? whoa. :P lol I know...sick.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:03 am 
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damn that stud looks like it snapped off really deep. I was lucky and mine snapped off on the outside. just enough showing to get the vise grips on it. I still had to pound on the vise grips with a hammer to get it to move though. actually I lucked out on a cam cap stud too. it also snapped off outside the hole. looks like I'm do for a pita bolt break soon.


Last edited by reckless1 on Tue May 04, 2010 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:47 am 
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No air tools for me... Did i mention i'm doing this without a garage? or driveway. :x

I'll do a comp test tonight and then hopefully get the crank pulley off. I guess i'll find out how successful i am. Where could i get the factory tool? dealer? I'm gonna need to run down to sears to get the 27mm socket so maybe they'd have something that could hold it.

A neighbor poked his head in the other night while i was working on the motor. We chatted it up for a bit about the project and cars. He said he works at a machine shop and is looking for side work. He seemed like he knew his shit. I'm going to give him a ring tonight and see if can help me out with the head situation. We'll see.

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'86 4000cs, 20vt Rolling on coils and 5 lug!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:02 pm 
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dubsmith wrote:
No air tools for me... Did i mention i'm doing this without a garage? or driveway. :x
You are a much more ambitious man then I for tackling a project like that

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:12 pm 
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yeah, i don't really know what i got myself into quite yet... Well i do, I guess I'd just rather not think about it lol.

So I'm getting nowhere fast with the wack the ratchet trick on the pulley bolt. I suck for not having a compressor.

Oh and a couple quick questions.
1. Will i damage anything doing a compression test by hand with no oil in the sump?
2. Audi cam and crank pulley bolts. Regular or reverse thread? (yes noob question.)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:18 pm 
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1. I doubt you get a good reading by doing a compression test by hand, I would want to have oil in the motor if I was turning over repeatedly.
2. regular thread using some kind of crank lock tool to remove the bolts is a good idea.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:28 pm 
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Although electric impacts suck, you can rent them from construction equipment rental places. Make sure you get a big one that can get you the ass you need as explained earlier in this thread. I've been there, needing to replace a water pump and deciding to replace the timing belt while I was that far. This was when I was stuck in Seattle going to school away from the comfort of plenty of the right tools and before I could afford my own.

Something like this would work

http://www.toolbarn.com/product/makita/TW1000/

But chances are the most rental places don't have a 1" Electric Impacts too often, but might be worth calling around.

The place I went to not knowing any better let me keep trying bigger impacts.

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