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Eric's V8 Coupe Quattro

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 Post subject: Eric's V8 Coupe Quattro
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:05 am 
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mach 2 with my hair on fire
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Well I finally found a recipient for the ABH I took out of my 93 V8.

This 1990 CQ was delivered yesterday (bought from member pitgrrrl here) along with a LOT of dirt from sitting a number of years. The car blew a headgasket many years ago and sat waiting for a swap that never happened. Cylinder head, Intake and Exhaust Manifolds and some other engine parts were sold off and I have a 7a block remaining.

the car will need a paint job at some point as there are two spots of the paint being totally gone (though a B4 hood swap solves one of them).

The speedlines are all there but 2 were flat so I put my spare Cabriolet wheels on for now

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So I set to washing the grime off - I did one half first to show the difference:
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And After...
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Today I will do the same massive cleaning on the interior - which is in pretty darn good shape too...
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The plan is for the ABH to go in there..
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I have also pulled a bunch of parts from an ABZ...
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I plan to use the 01A in the car and need to come up with solutions for:

Flywheel - Likely will source an ABZ flex plate and use the 034 insert unless I can find an ABH / PT flywheel (but do those work with the 01A or just 016?)

Engine Management - planning on using the covers from the ABZ so coils rather than distributor. I have the ABZ ECU and complete wiring harness too so I don't know if I can make that work or if I'll need to go VEMS or some other Standalone

Mounts - I can get the B3/ABZ mounts from 034 but this is an ABH and they have different mounting provisions. I believe the ABH and ABZ Drivers side are the same so perhaps I can use the 034 bracket on the one side and have something fabricated for the other side.

I will have a host of other questions as I go but these are first and foremost.

wish me luck!

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Last edited by grillage on Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:16 am, edited 14 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - cleaning it up!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:29 pm 
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More Progress today on the interior.
Spent a great deal of time with the shop vac removing the mouse nest in the glove box and all the nuts they left everywhere.
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Trying to take the seats out and both fronts work partially. Neither move front to rear but conveniently I was able to get the bolts out of the sliders to remove the seats.
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Took the carpet out and went to the local car wash for some deep pressure wash cleaning.
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When I hung it up to dry a bunch of the backing was peeling off - is this going to be a problem?
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So I got all the seats out eventually and all of the interior bits for a good deep cleaning
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The carpet is wet in the Passengers side front and both rear seats and I hope to figure out why pretty quickly.
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I have taken this all out to dry but will it be useful again or should I just go without?
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Here's the engine bay - Like I said, it's missing a TON of stuff so V8 it is.
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Last edited by grillage on Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - cleaning it up!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:38 pm 
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well done!
get a baby oil and soak those leather seats asap

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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - cleaning it up!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:40 pm 
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varia wrote:
well done!
get a baby oil and soak those leather seats asap


Thanks, I've been trying to figure out what is best to use on the leather.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - cleaning it up!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:57 pm 
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Glad to see it went to a good home, I was going you grab it but a death in the family and pitching to help with expenses it just didn't happen.
(Sorry pitgrrrl if your reading) I have to many unfinished ones anyway glad you grabbed it, I will be watching your progress I've always wanted to do a v8 coupe.

With that being a southern car you should have no problems with the nuts and bolts coming off. I actually picked up a black coupe in Indiana last December and I was fortunate to have it in excellent condition rust and corrosion wise.


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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - cleaning it up!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:03 pm 
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More progress today - hit the junkyards to get parts and did more cleaning.

picked a '93 and an '88 - both 90s.
got a B4 hood and radiator core support as well as the trim for under the headlights - is this all I need for the conversion? (besides the grill)
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Also got replacement for some broken and missing interior bits.
Trip Computer from the 88 as well as the drivers side undershelf (which was missing)

Then put the carpet back in with some of the underpadding - If I can actually get the car to run I'll put in new sound deadening foam.

I believe that the source of the water was that the hood cowl was totally stuffed with twigs and leaves and nuts (etc.) which plugged the ability to drain. The next way out for the water is through the air intake which sends the water into the passengers footwell and through the ducts into the rear seats.

Anyway, with everything dried out I reinstalled the carpet and interior bits...
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the seats are still out waiting for some conditioning. they look great and are keeping the other black seats in my basement company (B4 Cabriolet and C4 URS seats)
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While at the yard I grabbed a big piece of black leather from a 95 A6 that matches my Cabriolet seats - i have a big rip in the drivers seat so I hope to do a patch. that piece of leather is sitting on the seat in the pic.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - cleaning it up!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:40 pm 
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Looks good man, you are not wasting any time


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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - Flywheel and ECU Questions
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:40 am 
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A couple questions on the biggest stumbling blocks - Engine Management and Flywheel...

I will be using the 01A transmission so I need to get a flywheel that works. As far as I can tell, there are a couple options on the Flywheel...
1. use the 034 Insert (for which I need to purchase an ABZ Flex Plate since I am running an ABH block.
2. find a PT or ABH Dual Mass OEM Flywheel - but will this work with the 01A or just 016?
3. Find a Fidanza flywheel though they are no longer made.


As for Engine Management, I feel like I have narrowed down my options...
1. Go VEMS or some other standalone solution
2. Use the ABZ ECU I bought from the yard and buy 034's manual swap chip
3. Buy a euro 32v S8 ECU and VAG-COM it to manual - then bypass the immobilizer.

Can anyone weigh in on these please? what is possible, most realistic etc?

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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - Flywheel and ECU questions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:00 pm 
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mach 2 with my hair on fire
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I'm missing the braking system too, the master cylinder etc.

Should I replace or go with a B4 vac assist system?

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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - Flywheel and ECU questions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:23 pm 
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nice score. factory ecu is more install hassle but runs no tuning hassle. standalone is the opposite so management is whatever YOU want.
If you think a turbo is in your future then run standalone.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - Flywheel and ECU questions
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:43 pm 
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This makes me super happy! Thank you for rescuing it! I can't wait to see it all done!

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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - Flywheel and ECU questions
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:05 pm 
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Go with vacuum assist for the brakes- you will need the room for the V8.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - Flywheel and ECU questions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:11 am 
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A couple of updates...

Got the old engine pulled...
Image
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Made the call on the flywheel setup - I managed to find an unused Fidanza flywheel and the 034 Spacer that I'll need.
Likely to go with a 7A Southbend Stage 2 daily clutch setup with that.

Going to go with a vacuum setup on the brakes I think. I found a writeup using the existing MC and a 95 A6 vac booster but I have nothing to start with.
Conveniently, one of the local yards has an 88 90 that I would expect to have the same MC and spacer as well as a 95 A6 - so I'll be visiting there soon

Will I be able to keep the ABS or should I just remove it now while it's convenient?

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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - Flywheel and ECU questions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:11 pm 
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The ABS pump will at very least have to move, and if I recall the steel mounting bracket for it is in the way as well. Now is a good time to do it as you have the best access. On my car I opted to remove the ABS pump completely and cut the bracket off of the chassis. That said, it can be retained but it will be a bit more of a science project finding a space for it once you have the motor in there.

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Present: 1990 CQ ABZ, 2005 S4 6MT, 2001 Ducati 748

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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - Flywheel and ECU questions
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:40 pm 
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Will the fidanza work with the stock A8 ECU?

I know with the AAN and ABH the G4 and G28 are both required. Will the fidanza have the pin and starter ring the same as the ABZ Requires? The ABH is 136 tooth - I'd assume the ABZ is too

Will the holes in my 01A line up with the flywheel?

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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - Flywheel and ECU questions
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:16 pm 
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Is the B3/CQ ABS in a different spot? My B4 ABS isn't moved and fits fine

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1986 Audi Coupe GT (7A swapped and more)
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2010 VW Touareg TDI (DD, tow rig)
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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - Flywheel and ECU questions
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:17 pm 
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OOOOGT wrote:
Is the B3/CQ ABS in a different spot? My B4 ABS isn't moved and fits fine

Nevermind, didn't look at the picture... Definitely is different. That said, maybe you could swap in a B4 unit/lines

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1992 Porsche 968 (07K transplant in progress)
1983 Aud UrQ (20vt swap in progress)
1986 Audi Coupe GT (7A swapped and more)
2003 Audi S8 (DD)
2010 VW Touareg TDI (DD, tow rig)
2001 Ducati ST4
Past Audis: 87 CGT, 87 4kcsq, 93 S4, 90 CQ, 87 5ktq, 95.5 S6Avant, 86 CGT CE, 95 90qs 1.8T
Past P-cars: 80 931, 87 924S, 87 951


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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - Flywheel and ECU questions
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:07 am 
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Another 97 A8 just showed up in the local junkyard - is there anything else I don't have that I need to grab?

I have...

Intake box with MAF, intake hose, intake manifold, valley pan, valve covers, coils, complete engine harness, ECU.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - Flywheel and ECU questions
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:46 pm 
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The ABZ inlet manifold won't clear the two triangular coolant block-off plates on the ABH heads. You'll need to shave them down a lot to get it to fit - I ended up making new ones from stainless steel and hoping they're strong enough.

If you want to use the ABZ ecu then you'll need the 60-2 wheel from the flex-plate. I don't know if the Fidanza has that or not. The ABZ doesn't use a pin - it has a single crank sensor plus a cam sensor.

The hole in the 01E doesn't line up with the stock sensor location for the ABZ. There's a couple of threads knocking about on how to relocate it, but if the Fidanza doesn't have the 60-2 then you'll need to stick one on the front pulley instead.

Oh, and the ABZ cams are different too, as one of them has the drive for the cam position sensor. If you've found another A8 then I'd grab the cams, distributor cover-plates and cam sensor too.

Tbh, its probably easier to just run standalone at this point, as all you need is the wheel on the crank pulley and run the coilpacks wasted spark.

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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - Flywheel and ECU questions
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:23 pm 
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Here's my writeup on the intake manifold swap:
viewtopic.php?p=587709

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1992 Porsche 968 (07K transplant in progress)
1983 Aud UrQ (20vt swap in progress)
1986 Audi Coupe GT (7A swapped and more)
2003 Audi S8 (DD)
2010 VW Touareg TDI (DD, tow rig)
2001 Ducati ST4
Past Audis: 87 CGT, 87 4kcsq, 93 S4, 90 CQ, 87 5ktq, 95.5 S6Avant, 86 CGT CE, 95 90qs 1.8T
Past P-cars: 80 931, 87 924S, 87 951


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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - wiring and engine mgmt questions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:27 pm 
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mach 2 with my hair on fire
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Thanks mikkijayne and Alex, that's very helpful!

I spent some time on the wiring today. Finally got the 7A harness out and ended up pulling the fuse box and as much as I could get out. This is a little terrifying but it was pretty much required to see what was going on with the 7A harness.
Imagei am looking to remove its harness as well. The harness appears to include the rear diff lock as well. How is this delete done?

I may go standalone from here. We'll see...

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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - wiring and engine mgmt questions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:35 pm 
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My god I have no words to explain how I'm not looking forward to eliminating the redundant wiring when it's time to install VEMS. Looks like you're making great progress tho, keep up the good work (and plenty many pictures :wink: )

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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - wiring and engine mgmt questions
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:55 am 
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I have the code from a manual european ABH that I've been itching to test out. If you end up using the stock ABH stuff, let me know and I'll mail you a chip to try. I'm not sure if the differences between the manual and auto ECUs were hardware or software. My only running V8q is auto so I can't experiment!

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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - wiring and engine mgmt questions
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:59 am 
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Viridia wrote:
I have the code from a manual european ABH that I've been itching to test out. If you end up using the stock ABH stuff, let me know and I'll mail you a chip to try. I'm not sure if the differences between the manual and auto ECUs were hardware or software. My only running V8q is auto so I can't experiment!

Thanks but I'm ditching the distributor setup. I don't know that they'd fit in the bay

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 Post subject: Re: Ben's Coupe Quattro - wiring and engine mgmt questions
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:54 pm 
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Got the flywheel in the mail today! Scored an unused fidanza.
Image
Image
So I think I understand some issues with the engine management that will cause me to go standalone...

My only OEM ECu option is th a8 ecu I grabbed from the junkyard. However, the a8 ecu needs a cam sensor and a 60-2 signal to work.
I could get the exhaust cams and cam sensor from an A8 to solve one problem.
I guess i should have gotten the 034 flywheel adapter and an A8 flex plate (which has a 60-2 ring) and I'd have been able to run that ecu. But I didn't do that stuff.

What inputs will VEMS require if I go that route?

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