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1983 UR Quattro 3B Project

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 Post subject: 1983 UR Quattro 3B Project
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:52 pm 
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I have been waiting to put a different engine in my 1983 UR Quattro for a long time. I now have a 3B that I removed from a donor sedan and I was able to retain the wiring harness. I am going to keep the transmission that came with the UR for now, so my plan is to remove the WX and give it away if anyone wants it, and take my time learning about how to make the UR a fun, reliable daily driver with the 3B, the Intended Acceleration stage 3 kit (bigger exhaust manifold, hybrid turbo and ECU), and whatever else comes into my life as I work. The donor engine was well taken care of and was driven until I removed it at 225,000. So far, I have a rod bearing kit, headgasket and timing belt kit from 034, and I plan to replace the valve cover gasket and that's really it. I've been told to leave the headgasket alone if nothing was wrong with it but that seems crazy to me since I have the engine on a stand. I've already had great support with some odds and ends donated to me from a 4000, including a special power steering pump bracket that a friend designed a while ago for this swap. I've been told that it would be a really good idea to switch to vacuum assisted breaks and to dump the original hydraulic break booster system, so I need to learn more about what that means. I also need to learn about what a good new/modern oil cooler option would be for me to use. I also need to find a clutch disk and pressure plate for the 3B (sachs hopefully) but I don't want to buy a kit since I'm keeping the older trans and I already have the pilot bearing and throwout bearing I need. Anyway, I feel a little out of my league on this site, but I felt like the project deserved a thread somewhere and this site has always been a really helpful place for me to learn. I also want to give that 10v engine away and figured this would be a good place to put the word out. Any tips or thoughts around the items that I laid out above are greatly appreciated.


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me and 3B.jpg
me and 3B.jpg [ 2.07 MiB | Viewed 3944 times ]
URQ on trailer.jpg
URQ on trailer.jpg [ 2.51 MiB | Viewed 3944 times ]
3B in Donor .jpg
3B in Donor .jpg [ 1.95 MiB | Viewed 3944 times ]

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Nils Blegen
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'83 urquattro 3B conversion project
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 Post subject: Re: 1983 UR Quattro 3B Project
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:26 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: 1983 UR Quattro 3B Project
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:11 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: 1983 UR Quattro 3B Project
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:37 pm 
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Would love to see another 3B'd Mars Red URQ as a DD!!

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 Post subject: Re: 1983 UR Quattro 3B Project
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:22 am 
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nwblegen wrote:
I have been waiting to put a different engine in my 1983 UR Quattro for a long time. I now have a 3B that I removed from a donor sedan and I was able to retain the wiring harness. I am going to keep the transmission that came with the UR for now, so my plan is to remove the WX and give it away if anyone wants it, and take my time learning about how to make the UR a fun, reliable daily driver with the 3B, the Intended Acceleration stage 3 kit (bigger exhaust manifold, hybrid turbo and ECU), and whatever else comes into my life as I work. The donor engine was well taken care of and was driven until I removed it at 225,000. So far, I have a rod bearing kit, headgasket and timing belt kit from 034, and I plan to replace the valve cover gasket and that's really it. I've been told to leave the headgasket alone if nothing was wrong with it but that seems crazy to me since I have the engine on a stand. I've already had great support with some odds and ends donated to me from a 4000, including a special power steering pump bracket that a friend designed a while ago for this swap. I've been told that it would be a really good idea to switch to vacuum assisted breaks and to dump the original hydraulic break booster system, so I need to learn more about what that means. I also need to learn about what a good new/modern oil cooler option would be for me to use. I also need to find a clutch disk and pressure plate for the 3B (sachs hopefully) but I don't want to buy a kit since I'm keeping the older trans and I already have the pilot bearing and throwout bearing I need. Anyway, I feel a little out of my league on this site, but I felt like the project deserved a thread somewhere and this site has always been a really helpful place for me to learn. I also want to give that 10v engine away and figured this would be a good place to put the word out. Any tips or thoughts around the items that I laid out above are greatly appreciated.


Since I've done a 3B swap and also a high powered one in the past may I suggest a few things.

If this is to be a daily driver:
Keep the 3B stock and just chip it... for a daily driver nothing beats the K24 instant response.
Stock WX oil cooler is more than enough for chipped 3B. You will need an adapter to attach onto the single oil filter housing from the 3B as it uses larger fittings.
I would skip taking the head off if it was running well before removal, however all seals, timing belt and other gaskets should be changed.
Check the distributor and change the gear to metal if it has a plastic one.
Use the 3B clutch set-up, it is much better than the old WX one.
Here are some 3B swap pics from over 10 years ago.
http://www.quattro.ca/19853B/3B.htm

Any questions, just fire away.

Cheers

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82 Ur-q - SQ project, long term
83 80 q - Euro 2-door!!
83 Ur-quattro, Canadian
83 Ur-quattro, Rally tribute
85 Ur-q - Euro with 3B
86 4000 quattro with 59,000km on the clock
93 90q - 2.5TDI, 6-speed
93 80q Avant - 2.5TDI, 6-speed in the works
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 Post subject: Re: 1983 UR Quattro 3B Project
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:00 am 
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If you're going to change the head gasket, put in head studs.

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 Post subject: Re: 1983 UR Quattro 3B Project
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:15 pm 
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Thanks everyone! I had a really productive day removing the harness from the motor. When I removed the motor from the donor I felt sure I could figure it out later as long as I got the whole harness out while still attached to everything. Studying the Bentley's to make sure I understand what everything does.

I ordered a spec 2 clutch and ARP stud kit from 034. I want to do the head gasket just to learn about it more than anything, and if the car ever becomes more than a DD I'll feel good knowing I did it all correctly and ready for more power.

Martin- thanks for your link! Really helpful to see that! It looks like you kept the braking set up from the UR. Would you recommend that? I'm also struggling now that you mention keeping the stock turbo. I have the full Intended Acceleration "Stage 3" setup, which along with the rs2 manifold, includes a 'hybrid' turbo that has a larger compressor turbine and housing. It is extremely responsive on the '91 sedan that it's currently on.... now I feel lost.... : )

Also- I'm about to replace the rod bearings with the 034 kit. I'm going to be very careful about cleanliness and torque specs, but that's about it. Any other suggestions for what I should be conscious of while getting into that job?

Big thanks to anyone who even reads this. I'm grateful for any and all suggestions/advice.

Nils

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 Post subject: Re: 1983 UR Quattro 3B Project
PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:28 pm 
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Nils Quattro wrote:
Martin- thanks for your link! Really helpful to see that! It looks like you kept the braking set up from the UR. Would you recommend that? I'm also struggling now that you mention keeping the stock turbo. I have the full Intended Acceleration "Stage 3" setup, which along with the rs2 manifold, includes a 'hybrid' turbo that has a larger compressor turbine and housing. It is extremely responsive on the '91 sedan that it's currently on.... now I feel lost.... : )


Ultimately do whatever makes you happy.
For me a daily driver needs to be responsive so that I do not have to rev the crap/wait for boost to build to keep up with the new EcoBoost crowd.

I kept the hydraulic system because it was working fine. No reason to dump it unless there is a problem.
When doing the '84 I went with vacuum simply because it was all removed.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=32078

Hope this helps.

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82 Ur-q - SQ project, long term
83 80 q - Euro 2-door!!
83 Ur-quattro, Canadian
83 Ur-quattro, Rally tribute
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93 90q - 2.5TDI, 6-speed
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 Post subject: Re: 1983 UR Quattro 3B Project
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:03 am 
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I've got the coated rod bearing kit and all the bearings are the same, which is fine with me (I think) because they all have the little hole and the coating feels awesome. The factory bearings are different between the upper and lower: the upper feels nicer/smoother and the part number has 'A' added to the end of it. The lower: 034 701, and the upper is 034 701 A. Does anyone know what the intended difference was from Audi? (both the upper and lower have the little holes). The new bearings weigh exactly 2.5 grams less than the ones I'm pulling out. Any concerns out there? Thanks : )

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 Post subject: Re: 1983 UR Quattro 3B Project
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:25 pm 
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Nice to see some more of these projects.

You've come to the right place, that's for sure.

I second what Martin and Matt have already said. To add to the turbo/tune end of things, that's a pretty simple add on when it's running if you find yourself looking for more power down the road. Depending on your driving style/local traffic conditions, the lag from a bigger turbo might not be as rapid in the average situation.

That said though, do you have any more details on the "hybrid turbo" other than larger wheels? Is the IA3+ set up for that specific turbo? Which injectors did the donor car have installed with that set up?

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 Post subject: Re: 1983 UR Quattro 3B Project
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:37 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: 1983 UR Quattro 3B Project
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:01 pm 
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I completed the motor work after (possibly) stretching a rod stud accidentally and redoing the rod bearings again with the ARP kit. I also finished reattaching the head with the ARP head studs. I got her all buttoned up with a new timing belt, water pump and front main seal and set her aside.

I just finished removing the aftermarket exhaust manifold and turbo from the '91 200 that they were on, and I now understand the difference in the manifolds-- it looks like the the idea is to get the exhaust gas from cylinders 1 and 5 to the turbine more directly along with 2,3 & 4. The exhaust manifold has "USA" stamped on it, and as far as I know was originally part of the Intended Acceleration stage IV kit. Now that I've been able to more closely inspect the turbo, I see that the compressor housing has "26 1" stamped on it, where the other K24 turbos I have "24 1" stamped on them. Everything else is identical to the other K24 as far as I can tell, except someone painted the center cartridge bright red. I'm not sure if that's something IA did to all of those. My assumption is now that the K24 was sent in to IA, and a K26 compressor housing and wheel were put on it, but that's just a guess. I think that it makes sense to put the improved exhaust manifold onto the 3B either way, but I'm not sure if I'll start out with the K24 or with the K24/K26Comp.

I now have 3 different Mototronic ECU units to look into. One stock and has never been opened, one that was "stage 3" chipped by someone in Boulder, CO 15 years ago, and one that was sent to IA to be set up to match the "stage IV" kit. Does anyone have a good "beginner" reference to help me understand how different changes to those units result in fuel curves etc?
Thanks!!

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 Post subject: Re: 1983 UR Quattro 3B Project
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:02 pm 
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Oh yeah and I'm not sure about the injectors on the 200 that had the IA kit, as far as I can tell they are stock.....

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 Post subject: Re: 1983 UR Quattro 3B Project
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:21 pm 
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Wow this is just perfect.. keep up the good work. Definitely keeping up with this thread.


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 Post subject: Re: 1983 UR Quattro 3B Project
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:51 am 
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After finding a beautiful billet upgraded K24 option from the UK, I have changed my mind. I'm going to set the K24/K26 hybrid from IA aside, as it's got 100K on it (probably put it on my '95 S6) and put the new upgraded K24 billet on the URQ. I'm overwhelmed with exhaust manifold options, and I want to find something really sweet for the lighter, smaller chassis car. Any suggestions on where to find a worthy "rs2 replica" or genuine rs2 manifold these days?

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 Post subject: Re: 1983 UR Quattro 3B Project
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:26 pm 
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I'm now removing the motor from the UR....

The 3B is prepped with all the new ARP kits and gaskets, and I have someone who has agreed to take the wiring harness from the 200 and the appropriate section of the harness from the UR to do some conversion work. The modified billet K24 and RS2 replica exhaust are here and I'm planning on running 034 RS2 replica injectors at first since I already have them (the off-white ones), and I'll probably ask Marc from EFI to help me with boost and fuel chips.. Everything I previously outlined as being part of the IA 'hybrid' kit is now installed on my urs6 avant and it's totally sweet. Now the UR will have some slightly different components as noted above.

Areas of pondering:

1) I'm setting aside the hydraulic system and leaving it all connected (still full with red fluid), and I have a special 3B power steering pump mounting bracket convertor a friend set me up with. I'm wondering if anyone would advise against my using the UR power steering/ brake hydraulic (bomb) assist system? It was suggested to me that I convert to vacuum assisted brakes, but I'm not planning on it at this point.

2) The little aux radiator that ran on the stock UR that sits right in front will probably fit right back there. Does anyone have suggestions on what I should do for adequate cooling of the 20V assuming that my starting resources are the UR setup and everything from the '91 200?

3) I have read that a good intercooler option for this project comes from a 944Turbo.. Can anyone speak to this?

4) The 3 stage fan plate from the 200 is out and ready for me to use or not use... I've heard of there being some need to reconfigure the way the cooling fan relays work when doing this conversion. Does anyone have advise around this?

I really appreciate anyone reading this/ sharing whatever wisdom they may have! More to come and I'll post more pics soon also!!

Thanks,
Nils

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 Post subject: Re: 1983 UR Quattro 3B Project
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:36 pm 
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I swapped from an NG to a 3b in my 90 and I deleted the auxiliary radiator as well. It makes the car loads easier to work on as it simplifies the front end disassembly. All I have is the stock radiator and fan from the 10v and it has no issues whatsoever. If anything it runs on the cool side.

I don't know how similar the urq setup is to the NG but I didn't need anything from the 200 cooling system.

I drive the car daily and do 3 hour trips several times a month no problems.


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 Post subject: Re: 1983 UR Quattro 3B Project
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:06 am 
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1- I went to vac assist brakes just to free up the room where the brake bomb would be, other than the little bit of extra space I dont notice any difference between the two. If your hydraulic system is working fine I would stick with it unless you get the "while Im in there" bug.

2 + 4- I swapped in the 500w 3 stage radiator fan(with the stock UR radiator)when I did the 20vt swap, but I dont think it is necessary. It is nice to know that I have the cooling capacity but even in hot weather sitting still the fan only kicks on for 30 seconds every once in a while. The most important thing is having the proper shrouding around the radiator(so you actually force air through it rather than around it). If the stock fan is in good working order and you have everything else sorted you shouldnt have any problems with the UR's cooling system.

As far as the actual swap, I believe I used the 200 rado fan, the 200 3 stage resistor block, the 200 3 stage radiator sensor, and then just put together my own wiring. If I remember correctly the wiring was fairly straight forward and you will just need a couple of your own relays. The part I remember being somewhat difficult was getting the after-run system to work correctly but most people just skip that.

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 Post subject: Re: 1983 UR Quattro 3B Project
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:12 pm 
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Thanks guys, that helps a bunch!

I'm in the rockies and it will mostly be running in a generally cooler climate, so that's in my favor at least. I'll pay close attention to the shrouding to enable good flow. I'm not sure if I'll try to get the after-run system set up yet...

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'83 urquattro 3B conversion project


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 Post subject: Re: 1983 UR Quattro 3B Project
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:49 pm 
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Prepped 3B!


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IMG_2850.JPG [ 1.98 MiB | Viewed 801 times ]
IMG_2842.JPG
IMG_2842.JPG [ 2.12 MiB | Viewed 801 times ]
IMG_2860.JPG
IMG_2860.JPG [ 1.44 MiB | Viewed 801 times ]

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'83 urquattro 3B conversion project
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 Post subject: Re: 1983 UR Quattro 3B Project
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:53 pm 
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URQ work begins!!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:54 pm 
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I'm interested in the WX if still avail.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:25 pm 
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Hey Nils- about the radiator & cool climate - My RS2'd Urq seems to run a little warm (fan runs a lot)- I live in Alma Co -I also got rid of the secondary radiator, and run the 500w 200 fan and wiring (with RS2 shroud). We live in a cool climate but overheating is a bigger issue here because we don't have any air for the shear action against the radiator fins. Look into what issues indy car had in Denver (even their ECU's overheated!). I am considering putting the secondary radiator back in. I will probably try a thicker aluminum radiator first though.

food for thought-

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 Post subject: Re: 1983 UR Quattro 3B Project
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:43 pm 
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Thanks very much for that... I'll see what it all looks like when I start putting it back together..

Sounds like I may run the 200 fan and I'll see what shrouding looks like. I'll do more research on the wiring needs of using the 3 stage resistor and radiator sensor, and I'll keep the possibility of using the aux mini open as I progress.

Thanks guys!

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'83 urquattro 3B conversion project


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:12 pm 
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How's this project going?
Would love to hear updates

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