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Eric's '90 80QT: rustic bits

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... look ma, no suspension!
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 9:57 am 
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That's good to know... thanks!

Hey if anyone's interested, the 01A transmission and rear diff from this car are available - see my thread in the "swap meet" forum. The tranny is cheap and the diff is FREE but local pickup only.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... look ma, no suspension!
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:10 am 
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4.11 rear diff? id be game, i can come get it sometime in the next week or two, got a d/s too?
ill trade you a ride in the 16vT/aba/o1e 4kq

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'86 4kq - 3b'd = gone http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?t=25432

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... look ma, no suspension!
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:27 am 
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Yup, 4.11. But ya have to actually come and get it! :P I really need the space, if someone doesn't grab it in the next week or so I'm dumping it.

Driveshaft, got that too, one of the spiffy carbon-fiber ones. Comes without CV joints. U-joint is seemingly in good shape, support bearing is quiet and tight but the rubber's a bit "droopy". $50.00 or I'll throw it in if you buy the GTI seats like we were discussing.

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'90 80Q with AAN and Megasquirt
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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... look ma, no suspension!
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:49 am 
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be in touch soon, re:pick up sched

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DD '86 4kq BLAZE, swapping aba/16vT and O1E http://www.theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=201#p38264
'86 4kq - 3b'd = gone http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?t=25432

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... look ma, no suspension!
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:59 am 
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Okay! Did you read the description in my "swap meet" thread? Just so U know what you're getting: the diff comes without the locking actuator, and the front seal seeps a bit. Otherwise I think it's in good shape.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... look ma, no suspension!
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:58 am 
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yea no problem i using a generic cable pull actuator from summit for my diffs, i dont have a center locking trans so i went cable and deleted a bunch of vac stuff

be in touch

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DD '86 4kq BLAZE, swapping aba/16vT and O1E http://www.theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=201#p38264
'86 4kq - 3b'd = gone http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?t=25432

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... look ma, no suspension!
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 1:22 pm 
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Don't throw that diff away if he doesn't get it I will, the 01A too ill be blowing them up soon

Keep plugging away, ill say again too clean shell you got here

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... look ma, no suspension!
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:11 pm 
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JonathanL wrote:
Don't throw that diff away if he doesn't get it I will, the 01A too ill be blowing them up soon

Will do!

JonathanL wrote:
Keep plugging away, ill say again too clean shell you got here

Yeah, the amazing thing is it's clean underneath too. I still haven't gotten used to dealing with fasteners that aren't massively rusted and stuck! :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... Swiss cheese?
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:32 pm 
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So since I have a reputation for asking stupid questions that needs to be upheld, here's today's...
Looking in the front wheel wells of this car, there seem to be a ton of unplugged holes:
Image Image Image

Is this normal, or do all those holes usually have plugs in them? Or is the car supposed to have plastic wheel well liners that would cover them?

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... AARGH! diff bummer
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 5:38 pm 
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Okay today is not a good day. :(

X months after I bought the urquattro rear diff, I've finally gotten it up on the bench for cleaning, actuator linkage rehab, etc.

I'm fooling around and decide to try locking it, and seeing how many input flange revolutions it takes to get one output flange revolution. The correct number is 3.89. The number on this diff is... a little over 4! :? I think what I have here is an early 4KQ diff with a 4.11:1 ratio which ain't gonna play very well with my urquattro transmission.

And just when I thought the pieces were starting to come together on this @#!@#!! project...

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... AARGH! diff bummer
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 5:58 pm 
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(homer voice) DOH!

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BEAST http://www.theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=193#p37887
DD '86 4kq BLAZE, swapping aba/16vT and O1E http://www.theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=201#p38264
'86 4kq - 3b'd = gone http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?t=25432

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... AARGH! diff bummer
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 6:01 pm 
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Well as luck would have it I've been in touch with the seller and he's got another one that hopefully is the right thing so we're gonna swap it out.

Major props to Marc Swanson (like he needs any more) for taking care of this even though I took 4+ months to discover the problem! :thanks:

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... Swiss cheese?
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:00 pm 
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elaw wrote:
So since I have a reputation for asking stupid questions that needs to be upheld, here's today's...
Looking in the front wheel wells of this car, there seem to be a ton of unplugged holes:

Is this normal, or do all those holes usually have plugs in them? Or is the car supposed to have plastic wheel well liners that would cover them?


Can't answer whether they're supposed to be plugged but they DO normally have plastic fender liners from the factory.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... AARGH! diff bummer
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 10:00 am 
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you should jsut convert to a longer nose t44 rear dif and v8 auto d/s and have a never ending supply of difs fo cheeap

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DD '86 4kq BLAZE, swapping aba/16vT and O1E http://www.theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=201#p38264
'86 4kq - 3b'd = gone http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?t=25432

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... questions and more questio
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:00 pm 
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So here's an interesting one concerning the AAN engine/alternator.

Take a look at this:
Image

It doesn't show too well in the pic but the alternator mounting ear is threaded for a 10mm bolt, but hole in the bracket on the motor is sized for an 8mm!

Not a big deal as I can just put an M8 bolt through and secure it with a nut but German engineering usually isn't that sloppy. Has anyone ever seen this before? I'm wondering if this is perhaps the wrong alternator but it's the one that came with the motor and other than this one issue it fits perfectly.

Edit: I just checked a rebuilt alternator I had on the shelf, ordered by the model of the car ('95 S6) and it has the same tapped M10 hole.

Another edit: ETKA says an M8 bolt is used and it threads into the alternator. Yeah, right! :tard:

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... questions and more questio
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:50 am 
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And yet another question... this is something I haven't seen discussed much.

I'm going to relocate the battery to the trunk. The question is, how (or where) to route the positive cable?

The guy that did it to my 4KQ ran it under the car, tie-wrapped to the fuel lines. That seemed like a pretty poor plan, so I've decided to run it under the carpet inside the car. The two places I can think of are along the passenger-side rocker panel, and along the passenger's side of the driveshaft tunnel.

The rocker-panel route has easier access, as only the edge of the carpet must be lifted. But it would probably go through the firewall by the side of the car, run along the frame rail, then over to the starter in front of the exhaust, much like the factory setup.

If I ran it next to the tunnel, I'd probably go through the firewall over the tranny, then straight to the starter. So the cable would be shorter and less of it would be near the exhaust. But getting under the carpet by the tunnel is much harder.

Anyone got any thoughts on this?

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'86 4KTQ: R.I.P.


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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... questions and more questio
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:38 pm 
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Eric, when I removed my proconten cables I snapped the power cable in the holders and ran it through the firewall that way. Passenger side of course. Diddnt have to modify very much at all and used a stock 44 chassis power cable. Don't know if you removed yours, but that's how I did It.

Also are you sure the alternator isn't upside down? I don't have the full pic but unless you know for sure....?

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... questions and more questio
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:00 pm 
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Hmmm... that's a good idea!

When you say "removed" did you completely remove them? What's involved in that? I was just going to cut them off underneath the car.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... questions and more questio
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:07 pm 
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Well, I diddnt cut them, but you have to take the seatbelt mechanism apart. The cables run under th e door jam plastic runners and snap in the metal keepers. I try not to cut if I don't have to. You never know when you may want to use material you have on hand for a different purpose. Most people cut and that is just fine so don't hesitate to do so. I also edited the last post to include a comment about the alternator.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... questions and more questio
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:49 pm 
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Unfortunately the alternator's definitely not upside down. The mounting points aren't 180 degrees apart (more like 120) so if it were upside down it couldn't be mounted.

I ran the thing for a year and a half with an 8mm bolt so it's not like there's no solution, I'd just like to find the *right* solution!

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'86 4KTQ: R.I.P.


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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... questions and more questio
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:31 pm 
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Ugh. I'm dying a slow death of parts compatibility here! :(

I have in my possession two flywheels: a 3B one that I've been using successfully in my 4KTQ for a while now, and a supposed 7A flywheel that's been lightened and balanced. In case anyone hasn't read the earlier parts of this thread, these are going to be used with an urquattro transmission which of course is 016 type just like the 4K.

Now here's the fun part. Everything I read on the web says the 7A and 3B flywheels are pretty much the same except the 7A is heavier because it has extra material on the side facing the engine and it has the thing for the pilot bearing which the 3B does not ('cause on a 3B it's in the crankshaft).

Well guess what? The 7A FW is heavier for another reason: it's THICKER! 30mm instead of 22.6mm from the crankshaft mounting surface to the friction surface, to be exact. So 1) it's still a lot heavier even with the "ridge" machined off the back of it and 2) I suspect those 7.4 millimeters are going to cause badness with the release setup.

Edit: I had written something here about the timing pins (the engine-management ones, not the long pair on the tranny side) being in different locations - there's a different number of teeth between the pin and the "0" mark. But looking more closely it's unclear whether it's the pin or the "0" mark that's different. The engine's on a stand right now so I can't bolt the flywheel on and check. So all I can say is there's some timing-related difference between the two.

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'90 80Q with AAN and Megasquirt
'97 Saab 9000 Aero: mostly stock but ECU tweaks to add fastness
'86 4KTQ: R.I.P.


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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... flywheel angst and more
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:24 pm 
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Eric: 7a and 3b are very different. 7a is for the 01a series, can be used in place of the dual mass in the AAN cars for example. 3b is for the 016 series transmission.
Flywheel should match the transmission. I'll be using my 3B in the urq locker for example. Need a matching clutch setup as well (matched to the transmission/flywheel setup). Can you mount a pilot bearing into the end of the AAN crank and use the 3B flywheel again?

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... flywheel angst and more
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:48 pm 
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Yeah, I already put the pilot bearing in the AAN crankshaft and have the right clutch parts and it's been working with an 016.

I was hoping to switch to the 7A FW because I had it lightened and balanced to match a particular damper pulley. I thought it would work if I used the 3B PP and disc - the 3B and 7A pressure plates seem identical, and I know the disc is needed to match the splines on the 016. What I didn't know is the 7A FW is thicker, and even after lightening (by removing the ridge on the engine side) it's still considerably heavier than the 3B one.

I also forgot to mention the 3B disc can't just drop in and work with the 7A FW anyway - it hits the thingy that holds the pilot bearing. That part of the FW would have to be machined off.

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'90 80Q with AAN and Megasquirt
'97 Saab 9000 Aero: mostly stock but ECU tweaks to add fastness
'86 4KTQ: R.I.P.


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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... flywheel angst and more
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:54 am 
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So today's topic is "clutch slave cylinder confusion" :P

This relates to a problem I think I mentioned somewhere here with the 4K (w/AAN, 3B FW/clutch setup, and 016 tranny) where the clutch engaged with the pedal very high. I've seen hints here and there that there are two different slave cylinders for the 016, one having a pushrod that's 8mm different in length than the other? Can anyone confirm or deny this or enlighten me in any way?

Looking at online vendors for slaves for an '86 4KQ and a '91 200Q (which should have the same FW/clutch as I'm using), germanautoparts.com shows two slave cylinders that look like they're for an 016 (held in by a roll pin, not a bolt) and are priced differently which gives the impression they're different parts (that site doesn't show partnumbers). Almost all the other vendors I look at, and ETKA, show an 016-style slave for the 4KQ but what looks like an 01A-type slave (held with a bolt not a pin) for the 200.

Alternatively, does anyone have a slave cylinder for sale that's for the 016 used with the 3B motor? If the price is reasonable, I'll just buy it and compare them myself.

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'97 Saab 9000 Aero: mostly stock but ECU tweaks to add fastness
'86 4KTQ: R.I.P.


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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... flywheel angst and more
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:06 pm 
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You know there are two different 3B flywheels, one from 200 (016) and another from S2 (01A). The one from the S2 is dimensionally same as 7A flywheel, differences are the extra weight and pilot bearing . S2 3B has a needle bearing in the flywheel.


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