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Eric's '90 80QT: rustic bits

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo: water manifold happiness!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:20 pm 
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Cool! Let me do some measuring and I'll get back to you. Off the top of my head it doesn't seem like I should need that much, and I'd like to avoid spacing the engine forward any more than necessary because I'm hoping to stuff an intercooler in front of it that has *very* tight clearance.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo: water manifold happiness!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:16 pm 
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Not too too bad in the front. We had made a custom center support much like 034s and I see a little trim on the bumper rebar (the aluminum thing) as well as the bumper itself getting it done.

Way back I though I was getting a radiator and intercooler in front of 5 cylinders... now that ain't happenin at least with the mkII radiator I have.

What kind of time frame you think you will have this this going?

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo: water manifold happiness!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:52 pm 
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I hope to have it drivable by the end of April or so. Things like A/C will probably come later.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo: water manifold happiness!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:02 am 
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Hey so here's a question... I see a lot of threads around about putting 01Es into B3s using B5 S4 or S2 shift linkages. But I don't ever remember seeing an example of putting an 016 tranny into a B3 and what linkage was used. Anyone out there with a BTDT, or a link?

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo: shift linkage confusion
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:35 am 
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there isn't much documentation. Toxcheap's website has some pics/info. Nate did it completely opposite in his v8. If you use one of the internet way back machines you might be able to dig some stuff up from nates old website.

I'm using the 016 linkage attached to the 01A shifter assembly. I yanked the trans tunnel brace out and spaced the shifter plate up about 3/8". It seems to shift fine sitting in the garage. I've yet to drive it though.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo: shift linkage confusion
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:52 am 
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So you're going the "reversed shift pattern" route?

I've given that a lot of consideration, but I have two cars both with 5-speeds, and I think I'd go nuts switching between the two!

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo: shift linkage confusion
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:42 am 
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you should have no problem using the 016 front half of lnkage and the rear half of the 01a stuff

im about to put the 01a in my 4kq, so ill be playing around with something similar, any tips?

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo: shift linkage confusion
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:23 am 
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Yes. If it's too unnatural I'll have to put more effort into it.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo: shift linkage confusion
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:23 am 
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my2000apb wrote:
you should have no problem using the 016 front half of lnkage and the rear half of the 01a stuff

im about to put the 01a in my 4kq, so ill be playing around with something similar, any tips?

Yeah but if you do that you end up with a reversed shift pattern - 1/3/5 are toward the rear and 2/4/R are toward the front. Which I'd like to avoid.

U know to put an 01A in a 4KQ you're going to need a different center driveshaft, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo: shift linkage confusion
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:28 am 
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The shifters from the b5/b6/b7 should work fine, almost a straight drop in , might take a little tweaking of the rods for clearance, but there should't be much difference between the 01E and the 016. I'll have to look at the 4k today and verify the linkages look like I think they do.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo: shift linkage confusion
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:33 pm 
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savagerocco wrote:
The shifters from the b5/b6/b7 should work fine, almost a straight drop in , might take a little tweaking of the rods for clearance, but there should't be much difference between the 01E and the 016. I'll have to look at the 4k today and verify the linkages look like I think they do.


dont go putting that in peoples heads...

the shifter box fitting...maybe...but the differences of 016 linkage to o1e, ha.


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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo: shift linkage confusion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:09 am 
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Well I know the 01E linkage isn't plug-and-play with the 016 because the arm that comes off the selector shaft on the tranny attaches differently. The 016 one slides on and is held with a setscrew, from what I can tell from pictures the 01E one is tapered, has a key, and is held with a bolt that goes in the end.

What I'm thinking about doing is fabbing my own linkage that's similar to the B5 S4 one but uses a modded 016 arm. But I'm not convinced there's enough room for everything at the tranny end - it's going to be very close both to the tunnel and the transmission mounting bracket. I'm wondering if maybe the 01E selector shaft comes out higher and/or farther forward than the 016 one.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo: shift linkage confusion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:43 am 
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i meant with the shift selector shaft... similar location, same funtion, just reverse in a different place. i would think that it would be the easiest mod for a shifter.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo: shift linkage confusion
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:20 am 
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Well it's been a few days since I posted a stupid question so here's another one: what does it take to swap the ring & pinion from one small-body locker rear diff to another? Specifically, can be be done by a normal person without any special VAG tools?

Here's the dilemma: I've got two newer-style 4.11:1 rear diffs available with 100mm drive flanges which are the correct size for the car. And I've got an urquattro 3.89:1 rear diff which of course has the 108mm drive flanges.

To put the urquattro diff in the car, I need to get custom axles made up with 108mm inner CVs and B3 outer CVs. Or... I could just swap the urq R&P into one of the other diffs to end up with a 3.89 diff with 100mm output flanges. Has anyone ever tried that? Looking in ETKA it seems like it should be possible?

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo: shift linkage confusion
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:01 am 
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I have not pulled many of these apart. Any time you change ring and pinnion you have to adjust the gears for proper mesh, now that beaing said, i bet you can just swap them out and see what happens.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo: shift linkage confusion
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:17 am 
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I'm assuming its been tried by someone on here and doesn't work because it would already be common knowledge, but what about swapping the 110mm output flanges to the Urq diff?

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo: shift linkage confusion
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:59 pm 
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Hi Eric. My name is Bernie. I'm a Friend of Bill's (mrmotorhead13) and I have an 89 80 project that has seen some of the challenges you are encountering. We are putting a 10vt into the car with an urq trans and rear diff.

First off, I was able to use a stock rear B5S4 drive shaft in the passenger rear slot. I am looking into shortening the other one to use on the driver's side. I need to go measure it again, and perhaps review the procedure "Hank" posted (haven't found that yet) before getting the one modified. BTW I have done a ton of searching on Empi and other websites, and have not found a bolt-in solution yet.

For your shifter, we used a complete 4kq unit, mounted in a B5A4 shifter "cup" (cast aluminum, nice piece!) with some home-built rails to locate the shifter's ball cage. We haven't tried it in anger, but it seems to do all the right things and be sturdy enough.

Good luck with your swap. Once we get our car running, we will beat on it for a while as a track-only beast. If we need more powah, we may use a certain NG bottom end with a 7A head I happen to have laying around :)

Since our car is track only, I am afraid I can't help any with air conditioning or other convenience items. Ours were all removed in homage to the gods of lightness!

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo: shift linkage confusion
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:01 am 
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bernie wrote:
Hi Eric. My name is Bernie. I'm a Friend of Bill's (mrmotorhead13) and I have an 89 80 project that has seen some of the challenges you are encountering. We are putting a 10vt into the car with an urq trans and rear diff.

First off, I was able to use a stock rear B5S4 drive shaft in the passenger rear slot. I am looking into shortening the other one to use on the driver's side. I need to go measure it again, and perhaps review the procedure "Hank" posted (haven't found that yet) before getting the one modified. BTW I have done a ton of searching on Empi and other websites, and have not found a bolt-in solution yet.

Yeah... I'm pretty sure there is no bolt-in solution, or if there is it would be something exotic and expensive like S2 parts. I can't remember if I posted this already but it appears the driveshafts from a B5 A4 or Passat that's FWD with manual transmission and the 1.8t engine have the correct splines on each end (and 108mm inner CVs) but are a little too long. I'm going to see if I can get my hands on a pair of those and send them to Hank to be shortened.

bernie wrote:
For your shifter, we used a complete 4kq unit, mounted in a B5A4 shifter "cup" (cast aluminum, nice piece!) with some home-built rails to locate the shifter's ball cage. We haven't tried it in anger, but it seems to do all the right things and be sturdy enough.

That sounds really interesting but I'm not quite getting how it all fits together. Do you by any chance have any photos?

bernie wrote:
Good luck with your swap. Once we get our car running, we will beat on it for a while as a track-only beast. If we need more powah, we may use a certain NG bottom end with a 7A head I happen to have laying around :)

Since our car is track only, I am afraid I can't help any with air conditioning or other convenience items. Ours were all removed in homage to the gods of lightness!

Good luck with yours as well! Sounds like all you need to do now is find a way to get a turbocharger on there... :D

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo: shift linkage confusion
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:42 am 
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Oh it has a turbo, Eric... it's just bolted to one of those icky 10V engines. :D

What Bernie was saying is we'll thrash it about the track for a while with the 10V and see what needs fixing/upgrading, then maybe put in the NG/7A combo with turbo when everything works and the current power level gets boring.

Edit: I'll try and get some pics of the shift linkage this weekend, Eric...

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... eventually
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:36 am 
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As the Monty Python folks used to say, "and now for something completely different"...

Removing the AAN crank pulley with a breaker bar while the engine's on a stand: good idea or bad idea? I've got the engine out of the 4KQ and want to do some work to it including a timing belt... but it seems to me the torque required to get the crank bolt loose would make the stand want to fall over. Anyone BTDT?

Oh and an update on the rear-diff situation: I've decided I don't want to mess with swapping ring and pinion. But if my research is correct, FWD B5 A4s and Passats with manual transmissions and 1.8t engines have axle shafts with 108mm inner CVs and splines at the wheel end that will work with the 80Q rear CVs. I've found a pair and ordered them so we're gonna see if I'm right. If so, they're off to Hank for some length adjustment and my diff issues will be solved! :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... eventually
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:03 pm 
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elaw wrote:
As the Monty Python folks used to say, "and now for something completely different"...

Removing the AAN crank pulley with a breaker bar while the engine's on a stand: good idea or bad idea? I've got the engine out of the 4KQ and want to do some work to it including a timing belt... but it seems to me the torque required to get the crank bolt loose would make the stand want to fall over. Anyone BTDT?


Haven't done that particular engine on a stand but having working worked in a race shop I've done more than a few and I'm familiar with the torque on the I5 crank bolt....

I'd at the least have someone to balance the other side of the engine stand before I tried it if you're going to do it with a breaker bar, and try to fashion up a flywheel lock. I've had good success adapting VW aircooled flywheel locks to other engines (from Ferrari 360's to Porsche 993TT's).

That said, I'd find a compressor and impact gun and take it off that way, you're going to be a happier camper.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... eventually
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:48 pm 
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If yyou have the oil pan off you can just put a two by four up near a crank journal to lock thee internals

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... eventually
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:48 pm 
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OK I got a chance to dive into the car and take a couple of pictures. The B5 A4 piece is called Mounting for Shift Mechanism, a sort of cast aluminum bucket that bolts to the underside of the shifter area, 8D0-711-290C. We got a used one from a wrecking yard for nearly nothing. It included Gaiter 8D0-711-167. The B5 uses two rods, meanwhile we ran the Urq linkage 4kq-style with just one. As such, we tie-wrapped closed one of the outlets of the gaiter. This setup allowed us to change from the stock B3 linkage to a stock 4kq linkage without cutting the body or tunnel.

Side view
Image
Top view
Image

Note we suspended the stock 4kq base plate from the existing fore-aft rods, which seem to show in ETKA but do not seem to have Audi part numbers.

So far, it all seems to be rigid enough and all clearances seem to work. Once we get the car running again, we will be checking all this stuff out thoroughly. LMK if you need more photos or info.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... eventually
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:12 pm 
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Bernie,

Thanks! I'm subscribed to this topic but don't recall getting an email about your post so didn't see it until just now... sorry about that! I really appreciate the pix and the info.

I guess the part I still don't understand, and I should probably go look at my 80 before I say this, but I thought the 80 shifter basically sat right on the center tunnel and not on a "pedestal" like your pics show. But that's probably just my lack of understanding / poor memory.

So the 4 bolts coming up from below, those are holding the "bucket" on? It looks like those are going through existing holes?

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'86 4KTQ: R.I.P.


Last edited by elaw on Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric's '90 80Q turbo-to-be... eventually
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:20 pm 
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OMG... IT FITS!!!! Nah, I was sure it would fit the whole time. Yeah sure I was. :wink:

What the heck am I talking about? This:
Image

What you're looking at is a drive axle from a FWD B5 A4 with a manual transmission and the 1.8t engine. On the left it's mated - fitting perfectly - to an urquattro rear diff. On the right it's mated - also fitting perfectly - to a B5 A4 quattro rear hub. For those not in the know, that hub fits the B3 80 rear upright but accepts a 5-lug wheel.

Now the cloud around this silver lining is the axles are *not* the correct length. I'm gonna need some help from Hank with that aspect. But they've got 108mm inner CVs and the outer CVs have the correct number of splines for the A4 (or original 80 or 90 or CQ for that matter) rear hubs and I'm not aware of any other axle that fits that description.

Edit: or maybe not! Bernie, I just reread your message from a couple of weeks ago and realized maybe these are not the only axles with the right hardware on each end - it sounds like B5 S4 ones can work too? They have outer splines that fit the B3 (and by extension B5 A4) rear hubs? Oh well, at least these ones I got were cheap... 8)

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'86 4KTQ: R.I.P.


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