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THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....

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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:42 pm 
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Question about installing the 4k output flanges into the 01e. Since they're slightly longer than the 01E flange the 01E bolts aren't long enough, not only that but the bolt hole on the 4k flange is concave rather than flat, like a countersink bolt. Seems like you need a special bolt for this but dont see anything listed on ETKA. Anyone else come across this issue?

Also, since the flange is slightly longer, it doesn't seat as flush (~10cm), wouldn't this be a potential seal problem? Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:46 am 
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You need to machine the flanges to fit.

Or get two flanges from the rear diff (pass side)

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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:26 pm 
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Crap, looks like I got flanges from the Front of the 4kq. I guess these are the ones that need to be machined. Are the rear diff ones (P/N 088 409 355C) plug and play?

Also about the flange bolt... the 01E flange has an allen bolt that goes into the trans, while my 4k flanges have a highly concave seating area for a bolt - but the 01E bolt wont work on account of seating and length. Is there a special part for this bolt or are you also suggesting machining that area flat so I can use the 01E bolt?

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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:33 pm 
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QuattroPwr wrote:
Also about the flange bolt... the 01E flange has an allen bolt that goes into the trans, while my 4k flanges have a highly concave seating area for a bolt - but the 01E bolt wont work on account of seating and length. Is there a special part for this bolt or are you also suggesting machining that area flat so I can use the 01E bolt?


Well, asked too fast. Found the bolt:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-vol ... 088409359/

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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:58 pm 
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So let's talk this through on a B4 chassis...

Looks like I'll need a B5 S4 driveshaft (which stinks because I didn't take the one in the junkyard where I got my 01E 6 speed)

I'll need 100mm output flanges instead of the 108 that are on the 01E already because my axles are 100mm
These come from either the passenger's side of a numerous models rear diff or any standard A4 rear diff.

I have the shifter complete with rods from the B5 S4 already.

I won't have to mess with a spacer for the RS2 mounts I'll need to source because I already have a V6 subframe.

So the rear diff - how do I deal with the 3.89 final drive in the B4 rear diff? is there a straight swap that's 4.11? A CQ maybe? 200 20v?

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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:16 pm 
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grillage wrote:
So let's talk this through on a B4 chassis...

Looks like I'll need a B5 S4 driveshaft (which stinks because I didn't take the one in the junkyard where I got my 01E 6 speed)

I'll need 100mm output flanges instead of the 108 that are on the 01E already because my axles are 100mm
These come from either the passenger's side of a numerous models rear diff or any standard A4 rear diff.

I have the shifter complete with rods from the B5 S4 already.

I won't have to mess with a spacer for the RS2 mounts I'll need to source because I already have a V6 subframe.

So the rear diff - how do I deal with the 3.89 final drive in the B4 rear diff? is there a straight swap that's 4.11? A CQ maybe? 200 20v?




B5 S4 rear diff lol. Or C5 2.7t 6 speed or C5.5 3.0 auto or d2 S8. I dunno how you hook up the vacuum diff locker though. I have an S8 rear diff sitting here and there is no provision for that. I was thinking open them up since it's a good time to replace the bearings and seals (cheap parts) and swap the 4:11 gears into the b4 housing with the locker doohicky.

I too passed on a B5 S4 rear diff and driveshaft simply because it was hot and windy (mad dust) and I was lazy. derp.

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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:25 pm 
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I guess what I really need is an S2 or RS2 rear diff - those would be a direct swap.

Although I'll NEVER find those

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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:31 pm 
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So looks like there are a bunch of other Rear Diffs from B4's that will work.

AZC, AZD, AZE are all 37/9 or 4.11

Part numbers 01H500040, 01H500040A, 01H500040B respectively.

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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:59 pm 
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As far as I know, none of those other diffs made it to the US. But the rear section is the same as B5, D2 and C5. Prolly the easiest option is to swap in the 4:11 gears from any number of diffs into your current b4 housing. That way you keep the manual diff lock.

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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:09 am 
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I've not seen verification that the B5 driveshaft actually works, I've only heard rumors.
I asked Martin what he used and he said B4 rear with 4kq front, which is basically what the factory did for the S2 avant.

The B5 and B4 rear diffs despite having the same mounting points are different and from what I remember part's don't interchange. B5 diff also integrates rear sway bar mounts from what I've heard. So in order to run a B5 rear sway (stock or adjustable) you need the B5 mounts, or figure out how to mount it on a B4 diff.

I cross referenced the 3.89 ring and pinion from the B4 diff and it came up matching some t44 part numbers. So, I presume you can get a 4.11 t44 ring and pinion (10v t44 IIRC) and put it into the B4 rear diff to keep the locker (probably what they did for the S2 avant/RS2). Retrofitting a B2/B3 diff would most likely be a lot of custom work since they mount differently due to the rear suspensions/subframes being completely different.

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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:14 pm 
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Chris posted this on another thread:

A1QSHIP wrote:
O.K. I have taken pictures & measurements of some driveshafts that I have on hand. I make no claim as to weather or not this is accurate for your project. The driveshafts are all used & the measurements taken are from their installed relaxed state. The boots of the front & rear c/v joints tended to set the measurement position, i.e. they were not pushed or pulled to alter the results. First an overview of the driveshafts & what vehicles they came from. Top to bottom, 4000qt, 1995 90S B4 quattro sedan, 2002 B5S4 sedan, UrS4/6, 200 quattro with a 3b engine.
Image
As measured:
4000qt-1575mm.
Image
B4 90S quattro sedan 1150mm.
Image
B5S4-1125mm.
Image
200 quattro-1487mm. This measurement has been stated to be 1492mm in other post so there is room for controversy.Image

The 4000 quattro is the same length as the Ur quattro. The only difference between the two is the Ur qt has the larger diameter of the 200 qt. No picture of the Ur qt but the 4000qt driveshaft was compared directly to it.
The 200qt & UrS4/6 driveshafts are dimensionally the same in measurement.
I do have two Coupe qt driveshafts but they are both installed in vehicles & were unavailable for photos at this time.
Cheers, Chris


What I've read in this thread and in more elsewhere is that the 01A and 01E have about an inch difference in their length (with the 01E being longer). So with the B4 driveshaft at 1150mm and the B5 S4 at 1125 - that 25mm difference is just about right.

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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:35 pm 
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Great info, thanks Ben! So few people mod B4's it's hard to get concrete info sometimes.

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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:48 pm 
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Having trouble finding 1st and 2nd gears when test shifting. The inward movement to reverse is very far and feels like there should be 1-2 in between. Is this the sign of bad syncros? I read something about a shifting linkage 'shim' that sometimes goes missing, but since it hits R-3-4-5-6 I don't think it's that.

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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:30 am 
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hey guys I was lucky enough to score a 4k driveshaft with a bad center support which I intend to replace but anyways I decided to pull the driveshaft my B7 S4 driveshaft that I had in the shed for comparison and they measured almost the same. B7 driveshaft seems a couple mm shorter but fwiw I will do some more investigation to find out:
1- exact measurement to see if spacer can be made if 4k driveshaft is longer
center
2-if b7 a4 and b7 s4 are the same if they are we wouldnt have to source 4kq driveshaft that are becoming rare.


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File comment: audi 4kq driveshaft and audi B7 S4 driveshaft side by side
20170306_193540.jpg
20170306_193540.jpg [ 2.02 MiB | Viewed 10456 times ]
20170306_193557.jpg
20170306_193557.jpg [ 3.48 MiB | Viewed 10456 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:40 pm 
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thierryfabrice1 wrote:
hey guys I was lucky enough to score a 4k driveshaft with a bad center support which I intend to replace but anyways I decided to pull the driveshaft my B7 S4 driveshaft that I had in the shed for comparison and they measured almost the same. B7 driveshaft seems a couple mm shorter but fwiw I will do some more investigation to find out:
1- exact measurement to see if spacer can be made if 4k driveshaft is longer
center
2-if b7 a4 and b7 s4 are the same if they are we wouldnt have to source 4kq driveshaft that are becoming rare.



I like this info... but are the flanges the same? I guess if you are making a spacer only one needs to be the right pattern though

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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:51 am 
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gabriel.b wrote:
thierryfabrice1 wrote:
hey guys I was lucky enough to score a 4k driveshaft with a bad center support which I intend to replace but anyways I decided to pull the driveshaft my B7 S4 driveshaft that I had in the shed for comparison and they measured almost the same. B7 driveshaft seems a couple mm shorter but fwiw I will do some more investigation to find out:
1- exact measurement to see if spacer can be made if 4k driveshaft is longer
center
2-if b7 a4 and b7 s4 are the same if they are we wouldnt have to source 4kq driveshaft that are becoming rare.



I like this info... but are the flanges the same? I guess if you are making a spacer only one needs to be the right pattern though

Yes the flanges are the same see the pictures I did try it yesterday and also B7 S4 and B7 A4 auto share the same driveshaft part# 8E0521101AB and can be found at the junk yard for roughly about $100


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File comment: Bolt right up to 01E
20170309_212541.jpg
20170309_212541.jpg [ 4.36 MiB | Viewed 9375 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:56 am 
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I think the problem will be relocating the carrier bearing mount.

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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:03 am 
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more pics...
yes the center carrier is indeed the issue. but I think it shouldn't be hard at all. brackets can be cut down a little or modified and couple studs can be welded to the chassis which it will bolt right up to.


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20170309_212518.jpg
20170309_212518.jpg [ 4.5 MiB | Viewed 9370 times ]
20170309_212606.jpg
20170309_212606.jpg [ 4.81 MiB | Viewed 9370 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:07 pm 
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So i am going to finally embark on this journey also...its a B4 with the 12v still in it. I have a mess of transmissions to pick from and shift linkages. UrS 01E's and linkages B5 01E and linkages AND late S2 complete linkage and shift box. And 4k, B4, and B5 prop shafts to play with. I wan't it to be as OE as possible so the S2 would be it but didn't realize that my Ball bushing maybe worn...never have played with it till now. But one thing i was wondering, is the tapered arm coming out of the 01E the same on them all? Meaning you can put all three versions of that balled arm on all 3 transmissions? I'll semi confirm this tomorrow. IF it does fit then maybe S2 linkages with a B5 or C4 ball?? I'll be using a rear diff out of a late B5, yea no lock but i'm never going to drive this car in the snow again...thats why i have my 4k.


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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:56 pm 
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SO took out trans today and did some measuring and over all poking around. Realized i have a carbon shaft and thought i didn't, didn't know it was the front half. First going to try to see if I can use my carbon front with the B5 rear section and get to my appropriate length, prob wont work. But on to the donor transmission. Went to mock up my S2 linkage, and the top plate doesn't sit flat and it hits the B5 slave. Ok, so go to swap over the 01A slave and the bolt on the 01E brakes...some air hammer and welding later i get the stud out BUT the orifice the bolt goes into is now half gone because the rusty bolt split the Al...awesome. I put in the 01A slave, get it in and its snug but ill see what happens. The bolt holds in in place while that little curl takes most of the load. BUT the S2 plate still hits the slave and is not flat on the trans. Does anyone know if there are spacers that go under those three bolts? And of course the bushing is fairly worn...more reason why i may just do the B5 linkage.

Doesn't look like there are spacers.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:00 am 
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Not showing any spacers.
http://audi.7zap.com/en/rdw/audi+80+90+ ... 11-711040/

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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:25 pm 
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Yeah found the same thing last night, it does however say "if required". SO maybe older transmissions use it? It seems all my donor parts are from a 1994


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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:06 am 
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I had to use a spacer when I used B4 6-speed shifter on a B5 tdi gearbox.
One of the mounts was too low. I might have a pic somewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: THE 01E swap into a b3/b4 chassis thread....
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:53 pm 
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So...the 6spd 01E does have a different bell housing, test fit the plate on to a 5spd 01E and it sits level just barely and it clears the slave. Also any car that came with this shifter, ie. S/RS2, have special Slave lines going to it where it takes a 90 degree turn right off the slave. All others go straight out from the slave a bit before turning.


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