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Removing Broken Exhaust Studs

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 Post subject: Removing Broken Exhaust Studs
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 8:32 pm 
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I removed the OE EM from the 3B last weekend and broke three studs--no surprises there.

I have had fair luck in the past by MIG welding a nut onto the stud and turning it out carefully. The heat transferred into the stud and head from the welding process seems to help.

I also have a stud wrench, or whatever it is called, but I am afraid of going at it cold and have no experience in using a torch (if it is even advisable) to heat aluminum.

I have also had some luck turning out cold studs using the usual soaking with PB, tapping with a hammer, and carefully turning out.

Other ideas? I want to have all of the ideas out on the table before I start. Not breaking off a stud flush/under flush would be very nice!

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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 8:44 pm 
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Double nutting?? Depends how much you have left there?

I would spray a lot of PB blaster and go at it with a propane towrch. I wouldn't worry much about alumnum, it needs a lot of heat to mess it up. Heat the head around the stud, not the stud. This way aluminum expands around the stud as opposed to stud expanding.

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 3:33 am 
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I have never had much luck with double nutting. Plus, I am afraid that the torque required to smash those nuts together so they can turn out the stud is more than the stud can handle; it did just break, after all.

This may sound dumb, but I have often wondered, when you heat a head (or anything) to expand the metal, whether the expansion actually makes the hole larger or smaller.

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 6:00 am 
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This may sound dumb, but I have often wondered, when you heat a head (or anything) to expand the metal


It works somtimes. I used to pull it off at the rail road all the time with track bolts. Heat around that sucker up and it would come flying out! If that doesn't work, can you possibley use a bolt extractor? Like the tapered square ones?

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 7:17 am 
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Jonathan, I have removed countless broken exhaust studs from these heads..Soak them in PB for an hour or so, then use a propane torch (wouldn't use oxy/acetelyne) to heat and then put the stud remover on them. They will usually come out with no drama. I have seen some studs break down in the head---that results in a trip to the machine shop to get them removed and Heli-coiled.

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 7:57 am 
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I've had really great luck with the Craftsman Power Bolt Out tool set: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1260 ... _productpg

Best $16 I have ever spent on a tool. I've personally used it to take out about 8 broken/stuck exhaust studs on VW heads so far, along with probably a dozen or so other types of broken stuff.

They have different versions of this tool depending on how much you want to spend, including some impact-grade ones, but I've used this exact set for several years now and love it.

The only time it didn't work was on a water pump half bolt that broke- it just "shaved" the bolt until I couldn't get to it anymore. I had to resort to weld-wait-weld method and grab the welded part with vice grips and twist it out that way. Had to do that twice though before it would come out.

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 9:40 am 
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At our shop, we have a lot of experience with broken studs on Ford cylinder heads. Personally, I would use heat as a very last option. This is for mainly 2 reasons. First, you increase the chance of pulling the aluminum threads out with the stud. Second, if the stud should break, it may have been tempered with the heat. It will be much more difficult to drill if it breaks flush with the head. What I've always done is work them with vice grips. That way I can see more of the stud and know if its twisting or flexing. A light rattle goes a long way too. It helps loosen it up. Just be sure that everything is in baby steps. Good luck.

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 9:45 am 
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I'm not an expert but I agree with baby steps. coax it out like your trying to get into a girls panties.


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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:22 am 
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When I had the 3B head off my 200 20v I used a torch and a bolt out or a undersized 12 point socket hammered onto the rest of the stud. This worked well otherwise if one sheers off flush I would let a machine shop handle it.

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:37 am 
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Lord_Verminaard wrote:
I had to resort to weld-wait-weld method and grab the welded part with vice grips and twist it out that way. Had to do that twice though before it would come out.

Brendan


I have had quite a bit of success with the welding method, sometimes even with studs that are broken off below flush. It usually does no harm, but the weld is often too weak to hold the torque necessary to get the stud out.

I would invest in stainless studs if I had not seen 8mm stainless studs break awfull easily. Hmm...inconel studs...

Good information, guys. I may invest in the Craftsman tool.

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:40 am 
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reckless1 wrote:
I'm not an expert but I agree with baby steps. coax it out like your trying to get into a girls panties.
:slap: :bashtard:

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 5:25 pm 
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Jonathan,

If you don't want to buy that Craftsman set, I'd be happy to loan mine to you.

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 5:41 pm 
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Dubbinchris wrote:
Jonathan,

If you don't want to buy that Craftsman set, I'd be happy to loan mine to you.


I will take you up on that. I may also take the head off. This might be the impetus I need to do the HG and install the ARP studs. TB is a must since the timing belt is not a day less than eight years old. With a head gasket of unknown age, why risk it, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Removing Broken Exhaust Studs
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:50 pm 
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Rather than start a new thread, I'll just revive this one.

I removed the exhaust manifold in my UrS4 to replace the gasket, which was leaking. Three of the studs broke off without much force being exerted on them. I almost want to say that they were already broken (the reason for the exhaust leak?). All three of these studs broke off about 2mm inside the head, so trying to drill/Dremel/extract/what-have-you the broken studs from the aluminum head is going to be very risky. Has anyone had any luck getting past this issue without having to resort to a machine shop? If the head was off the car, then I wouldn't have to tow it, but I'm not even going there (removing the head, that is). I have a Dremel, FWIW, and plenty of PB Blaster.

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Removing Broken Exhaust Studs
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:43 pm 
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well start with PB blaster...let it soak for a few days, the more the better.

Dremel isn't going to get you too far, BUT a drill might. Get some good easy outs and good drill bits.

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 Post subject: Re: Removing Broken Exhaust Studs
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:15 am 
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Ive never had good luck with On car procedures of this nature. Just my 2 cents, I know it sucks to think about..


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 Post subject: Re: Removing Broken Exhaust Studs
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:17 am 
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I will continue to let the PB Blaster soak in, and I will continue to work on it with the stud extractor tools I have, but it is starting to look like the head is going to have to come off for a trip to the machine shop. :(

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll keep checking this thread for any other input you guys may have. I'll post my experiences as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Removing Broken Exhaust Studs
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:24 am 
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Yes, you are more than likely going to need them Heli-coiled..Who knows, maybe you will get lucky and get them out.

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 Post subject: Re: Removing Broken Exhaust Studs
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:57 pm 
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Seen this happen waaaaayyyy to many times.... Every time I know Im going to that the exhaust manifold off I grab my can of Zep 45 and hoes all the studs down. From my experiance with both PB and Zep 45. The Zep just seems to work a whole lot better at penatrating than PB. When the studs are broke off like that your going to need a drill a good set of carbide drill bits and a good set of EZ out extractors. That is unless your going to pull the head and let the machine shop handle it.


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 Post subject: Re: Removing Broken Exhaust Studs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:23 am 
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Broken exhaust studs....yes, from what I've read and personal experience, it happens all the time. When removing the head on my QSW in 2006 to have sent out to the machine shop, 2 of the studs broke right off flushed to the head. The machine shop I sent the head to, however, did a nice job at removing the broken studs without any incident--no Heli-coils.

Meanwhile, last week, I had to deal with a seized screw on the MAS of my 90 20V. I bought a stud/screw extractor from Advance Discount Auto Parts but it was fruitless (only includes extractor). I proceeded with buying a better stud/screw extractor (for $32+) from Sears to tackle the seized screw.

The Sears' stud/screw extractor, which includes both, a driller and an extractor was of much better quality and build. The drilling portion of the tool, however, is basically worthless as it barely drills through and after close to an hour, I had to get a Black and Decker drill bit to drill to seized screw. The drill bit a had also made very little drilling progress even though the box set it came in says it can be used on metal as well, but probably thin metal sheet as opposed to solid metal.
http://tinyurl.com/2d85qkr

Anyway, 4 broken drill bits later, with one of them drilling a hole in one of my left hand's finger do to breakage (Yes it F$#@%^& hurt like hell and I was dumb not to use heavy-duty gloves which I had dandy :frustrated:) I put the Sears extractor to work. The tool caught about 1/8" of the screw and broke it right off instead of stracting the whole thing. I gave up and simply drilled out the rest of it, this time with the heavy-duty gloves on :frustrated:

Drilling studs/screws out are a real frustrating pain to say the least.

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 Post subject: Re: Removing Broken Exhaust Studs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:34 am 
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If your gonna be drilling for an easy out, heat it up after drilling to a nice red boil and cool it off right away with shooting some loosenut in the hole, or what ever liquid, do this two times or more if you want. The stud should shrink in principle, and come looser. I've use this technique using water on body panels with stretched metal, works nicely, metal hardens up a bit tho.

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 Post subject: Re: Removing Broken Exhaust Studs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:27 pm 
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My machinist uses the welding method, the heat is a major contributor of the stud coming out, he said if the if the stud is unwilling to come out after welding it spray WD40 on the stud let it cool down the WD40 will draw into the base of the treads works almost every time. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Removing Broken Exhaust Studs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:51 pm 
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i use a mig welder, grease the surrounding aluminum, and just tack a little bit at a time to the broken bolt/stud until i have enuff meat to grab with vice-grips. always works for me. use the heat from the welder to heat the broken bolt, then heat-sink it into the head, which makes the aluminum expand and the steel bolt to contract, then slowly work the busted fuk back and forth, kinda like a tap w/ liberal doesings of PB blaster.

MUST use a gas MIG tho. PB-blaster and good fresh vicegrips. never brought anything to any shop.

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 Post subject: Re: Removing Broken Exhaust Studs
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:54 pm 
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Update: I ended up removing the head and taking it to a local shop. With three of the studs broken off about 2mm below flush, I decided I let "pros" handle it. I'm waiting to hear how the stud removal went. I'll post how they resolve the issue as soon as I find out.

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