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Eurotrash Motorsports: B4 20VTQ Avant - Holset time...

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 Post subject: Eurotrash Motorsports: B4 20VTQ Avant - Holset time...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:35 am 
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kickin' tires'n lightin fires

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:28 am
Posts: 870
Location: Ottawa, ON
Hey guys...long time reader and I figured it's about time I said hi and introduced my project...I'm also at a point where I'll need a lot of this forum's wisdom with my project... I've kept update threads on other forums but I'll try to sum it all up here...

'Gianna' is an import from Italy (hence the italian name) that came here as a diplomatic vehicle...I then got her through a weird exchange of car for labour sort of thing back in september and have been trying to get her road worthy since....my insurance company refused to put her on the road because the VIN wasn't in their system....anyways finally got everything sorted out (had to switch 4 cars and 2 properties to a new insurance company just to get this one insured) thanks to a fellow Audi driver...

Here's how she came to me...

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and here she is now...

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the 2.0 feels like it needs a better tune and def a cam....the gears are extremely long which doesn't help much but i`m hoping a passat 1.8t tranny will fit in there....the engine passed e-test with flying colors which was very surprising but i had some issues with fuel delivery - solved using a Walbro in-tank pump....

As it sits the car is being prepared for Targa Newfoundland in 2011 so I had to get started on the cage...its being built by Targa veteran Glen Clarke (http://www.openroadmotorsports.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).

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just the beginning...doing it in two parts - this is the back obviously...the seats are a bit low but that's my fault - I was a bit too optimistic with my height when I went in for the fitment...also apparently the G Force harness I had which is the latch type doesn't work with the CARS rules so I gotta get a new one...painted the back and re-did the seat mounts...the interior will be repainted again in white when the cage is done....

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also got a straight pipe done - my god for such a little engine it certainly makes a lot of noise...

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here's a video of what is sort of sounds like - you might want to scroll towards the end - not sure why I had to post the whole thing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JhRIwPZbeQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

also got some interior bling...

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Contains:

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+

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here I am at Shannonville...the car is very well behaved in corners but there's just no balls for the straights...

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here I'm chasing a buddy in his 24v Mk4 GTi...you can tell he can't drive very well because I'm on his ass the entire time with a 100hp difference...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92rwVzjZya8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

more interior bling (clearly the reclining seats are not acceptable in any racing environment)

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and of course I had to shoot a video of me taking the dash apart so they can work on it :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwz0syVdZfk&hd=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All right here's the most recent news - Eurotrash Motorsports officially announced our participation in the 2011 Targa Newfoundland race. The car of choice is of course Gianna and we will be running the race on behalf of the Children's Hospital of Eastern Ontario (CHEO) - here's a few things that will need to be done beforehand:

1. AAN swap - I've decided that the 90 (or so) hp that the 2.0 offers is not enough to be competitive in any class at Targa. On the other hand I don't want to race Open Class because the people there have budget and experience way beyond mine...it would be useless to even try for podium there... This is why I chose the AAN - originally I was going to build up a 1.8T since I have enough parts to put together at least two of them...the problem is that engine was never offered with that body which automatically puts me in Open Class. AAN is about the best choice of engines that will keep me within 3rd group modern class. I am currently in the process of generating the parts list for the build but i`m aiming for anywhere between 250 and 300hp. Here is a quick video of the donor car...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkiQO1C4Wi0

Unfortunately I won't have time to do a quattro swap before the race, which means that I have to stick with FWD (blaaaaaaah) for this year...I am, however, taking the driveline off the UrS4 so quattro will be the first thing to be done next year...

2. 1.8T tranny - let's recap - I have a longitudinal engine with a FWD drive line - not much choice in terms of tranny...the problem with the current one is it will likely not withstand the power of the new engine and its horribly geared...if you watch some of the earlier videos from the track you`ll notice a major drop between 2nd and 3rd gear - that is unacceptable in any shape or form if we're racing the clock...a tranny off a FWD B5 passat (or audi) is about my only choice at the moment...at least they are readily available and I can get an LSD for it as well....

3. Brakes - the ABS has got to go...that will free up some good space up front and will eliminate a lot of wiring inside the car....I`ll pass new brake lines through the car and the hand brake will be eliminated in its current form. It will be replaced by a hydraulic handbrake that will make things a little easier in a rally environment.

4. Interior - You guys already have an idea of what the car looks like - I might have t swap the dash off the UrS4 so I can use the stock speedometer...the front of the cage should be finished by now (http://www.openroadmotorsports.com) but I am 5000km away from the car for the next 2 months so no pics yet...This time the entire interior will be painted and I am convinced that white will be a better color than black....so I`ll be repainting the cage as well...

5. Suspension - sigh...no clue what i`m doing with this yet...this car is not usually found in NA so i'm not sure who carries anything for it in FWD version anyways - there are options for the quattro but I'll have to deal with this almost first thing...

6. Exhaust - 3" straight pipe with a cat - the rules require the cat there but the rest is open to whatever I want...

Anyways...here's a little theoretical sequence of events - starting April 1st and hopefully finished by the end of May

1. Take engine out of UrS4
2. Buy 1.8t tranny and ensure it fits
3. Check tranny fitment with drive shafts etc
4. Order parts - pistons, rods, valves, LSD, clutch, flywheel, hydraulic handbrake, turbo, manifold
5. Send AAN for machining
6. Take engine out of 80
7. Remove ABS
8. Build AAN up
9. Mount in 80
10. Pray that everything fits as planned
11. Drink beer
12. Test

If everything goes as planned I will have between 2 and 3 months during the summer to hammer out all the little things that will come up during the swap....

I will be posting everything here of course but feel free to check http://www.eurotrashmotorsports.com and http://www.openroadmotorsports.com for more information on the race etc.

Also - here's the first of the series of newsletters we are releasing addressing our participation at Targa Newfoundland...

http://eurotrashmotorsports.com/ETMNewsLetter.pdf


phew...I think this is the longest post I've ever done....I am really hoping to get some help with the shopping list for the AAN swap - any suggestions are welcome...

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Eurotrash Motorsports

2006 B7 2.0TDi Avant quattro - powered by Holset
1993 B4 20VT Avant quattro - powered by Holset


Last edited by NiTeC on Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:18 pm, edited 49 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - Rally Project
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:46 pm 
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I saw your project on vortex few months ago. I really like audi projects, but to destroy a such a good and rare body is a crime in my eyes.
Btw why would some rally with a wagon? I know... volvo 850 dtm...

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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - Rally Project
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:05 pm 
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Wait, this is in the US? Want a CQT? I'd love a B4 avant!

:Edit: North America anyway...If your ever "done" with it Id love to at least steal the roof and put it on a 90!! ]:-D

What is the VIN? Could answer some interesting non-RS2 B4 Avant questions.

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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - Rally Project
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:25 pm 
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kickin' tires'n lightin fires

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i`ll try to find the VIN...i remember it having a few XXX too many - a few people have looked at it without much success in figuring out why the exact numbers weren't punched in...

hmmm...plenty of wagons being raced out there...

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2006 B7 2.0TDi Avant quattro - powered by Holset
1993 B4 20VT Avant quattro - powered by Holset


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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - Rally Project
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:38 pm 
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kickin' tires'n lightin fires
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Cool car! I live in the Ottawa area as well. I think I may have seen your car this past summer around the Lebreton Flats area. I thought it was an RS2 at first.

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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - Rally Project
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:28 pm 
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The wagon should be super easy to work on with all that room. Cant wait to see it airborne.

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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - AAN - And so it begins...
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:07 pm 
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Finally came home after 3 long months and immediately got to work...picked up the S6, got the B4 back from the cage builder and cleaned the garage...

of course - pics for clicks...

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The cage is built to rally specs so its mucho beefy...
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I gotta clean up the car and paint the interior asap to prevent any corrosion...
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1993 B4 20VT Avant quattro - powered by Holset


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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - AAN - And so it begins...
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:12 pm 
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I'm a little late to the party but... you do realize the B5 A4 uses the same rear suspension as a B4 don't you? Lots of stuff for the rear of A4's.

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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - AAN - And so it begins...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:51 am 
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kickin' tires'n lightin fires

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hmmm...a lot of people have started to talk about the B5 rear stuff....

unless I can drop the rear off the B5 and directly bolt on to the B4 the effort is not worth the time right now...I don't have the visual confirmation yet but it's my understanding the FWD B4 chassis is identical to the quattro B4 chassis and you can just bolt the rear end on...I will have more info on that in a couple of days....

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1993 B4 20VT Avant quattro - powered by Holset


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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - AAN - And so it begins...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:27 pm 
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all right...lots of work done today...engine is ready to come out as soon as I pick up the engine hoist tomorrow...

here's where we started...
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and here's where I stopped...
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looks like the car took a hit on the right side...the main beam was bent and the right-side mount is ripped...
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having some trouble reaching the 4th bolt on the exhaust pipe...I got the cats off but it looks like the downpipes will have to stay in while I'm taking the engine out because it's impossible to reach this damn thing...any suggestions?
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and let's play 'name that part'...looks like a control 'something' for the AC/rad fan but those don't look like the relays I had in my MK4
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engine out tomorrow and stripped to the bone...the shopping list comes after and a quick call to 034...once everything is ordered the B4 goes into the garage and the 2.0 comes out along with everything else from inside that car...

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Eurotrash Motorsports

2006 B7 2.0TDi Avant quattro - powered by Holset
1993 B4 20VT Avant quattro - powered by Holset


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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - AAN - And so it begins...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:04 pm 
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I'll be watching this one. AAN FWD? w00t!

And no, the B4 FWD and Quattro chassis is NOT identical. There will be a bunch of custom work in the back.

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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - AAN - And so it begins...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:23 pm 
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I had the same problem with the downpipe bolt on my 200 20v, i couldn't get a socket over it due to the curvature of the pipe. I ended up just taking the head off to remove it (was taking the head off anyways)...
I think a crows foot wrench and the right extensions might do it...

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1988 tonado red 90 quattro AAN swap, holset hx35, VEMS - in progress
1975 Porsche 914 2.0 - Track car?

quat·tro \ˈkwattro\ v (1980) : To use a full time all wheel drive equipped Audi to drive where other cars can not. He just quattro'd right through that snow bank.


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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - 2.0E to 2.2T - AAN out
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:34 pm 
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kickin' tires'n lightin fires

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sigh....I was dead set on taking the AAN out today so it was a frustrating afternoon....

I couldn't get ahold of the downpipe bolt at first...a seized driveshaft bolt made it impossible to reach back without getting the downpipe out so I decided to take the head off (thinking the exhaust will follow)...If I only thought this through I'd see that the driver side downpipe would never squeeze through there...In the end when I lifted the head up I managed to get a wrench around the last downpipe bolt and got the exhaust out of there...

Mid afternoon:
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and after a very good fight with this donkey I managed to pull it out...
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its unbelievable how huge the tranny actually is...I'm pretty sure my B5 tranny is a lot smaller...I should put them together for some comparison pics...

and of course I had to play with my old R32 bumper :)
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2006 B7 2.0TDi Avant quattro - powered by Holset
1993 B4 20VT Avant quattro - powered by Holset


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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - 2.0E to 2.2T - AAN out
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:37 pm 
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If its a B5 A4 then yes it would be smaller the B5 S4 should be about the same.

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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - 2.0E to 2.2T - AAN out
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:15 am 
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yeah...a B5 1.8T tranny...

Parts list time (taken from 034's website)

Pistons: JE Forged (stock crank) - 949$
Rods: Scat Forged (20mm pin) - 595$
Studs: APR - 180$
Exhaust manifold: External WG/T3 flange - 295$
Turbo: GT3071R - 1395$
WG: Tial 38mm - 400$
Chip: GT3071R - 1049$
IC: S2/RS2 fit - 690$
Clutch/flywheel: ?? (not sure what to get for the 1.8T tranny) anyone?

It looks like I'll stop at the bottom end and turbo for now and just rebuild the head...the head will get more attention down the road...am I missing anything major?

Any comments on the parts list? According to 034 this hardware should put me around 340bhp, which should be plenty fun with a FWD...

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Eurotrash Motorsports

2006 B7 2.0TDi Avant quattro - powered by Holset
1993 B4 20VT Avant quattro - powered by Holset


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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - 2.0E to 2.2T - spendin money...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:40 am 
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kickin' tires'n lightin fires

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what a pleasure it was to talk to 034 Motorsport today...no hesitation just straight service... :thanks:

on the order:

JE 81.5mm pistons
Scat rods
Main/connecting bearings
APR head studs

Also after a quick discussion with Dan (I think) we changed the turbo selection to the Garrett GT2871RS for a more linear power curve...he was worried the 3071 I had chosen would be way too much for the curves I'm about to tackle...the best thing is the turbo will be direct bolt-on to the stock manifold and I can use my original WG...here's some specs on their chip:

Specifications:

-26psi overboost, 22psi to redline, 7200rpm rev limiter
-Air/Fuel ratio 11.5-11.8 under boost, 14.7 under light load and idle conditions. Recommended for 91-93 octane fuel.
-330 wheel HP (to the wheels), estimated 400-425 crank HP.
-Injector duty cycle 85-90% max. under full load at peak rpm of 7200rpm.

Image

very very very exciting stuff! :D

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Eurotrash Motorsports

2006 B7 2.0TDi Avant quattro - powered by Holset
1993 B4 20VT Avant quattro - powered by Holset


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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - 2.0E to 2.2T - spendin money...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:03 pm 
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Nice looking car, I love the project!

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1990 90 quattro 20v Tornado Red- Crushed before she should have been :(
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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - 2.0E to 2.2T - spendin money...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:01 pm 
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sweeeet very interested to see the b4 quattro swappage

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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - 2.0E to 2.2T - spendin money...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:05 pm 
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So, for starters this car will be just FWD or will you swap in the Quattro drive train at the same time as swapping in the AAN?

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95 Audi 80 converted to Quattro + AEB.


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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - 2.0E to 2.2T - spendin money...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:13 am 
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it will go to Targa as a FWD AAN car this year...if I swap the quattro over I will be placed in Open class which I'm trying to avoid like the plague...in fact that's the only reason I'm swapping the AAN - I was going to do a 1.8T but that puts me in Open class automatically...I'm racing it as a replica in Modern 3rd level prep...

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2006 B7 2.0TDi Avant quattro - powered by Holset
1993 B4 20VT Avant quattro - powered by Holset


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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - 2.0E to 2.2T - spendin money...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:48 am 
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oh what I would give for a B4 avant...

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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - 2.0E to 2.2T - spendin money...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:31 pm 
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NiTeC wrote:
it will go to Targa as a FWD AAN car this year...if I swap the quattro over I will be placed in Open class which I'm trying to avoid like the plague...in fact that's the only reason I'm swapping the AAN - I was going to do a 1.8T but that puts me in Open class automatically...I'm racing it as a replica in Modern 3rd level prep...


Man, AAN FWD. That's going to be interesting :D

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95 Audi 80 converted to Quattro + AEB.


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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - 2.0E to 2.2T - electrical out...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:38 pm 
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kickin' tires'n lightin fires

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hah...I know...I'm equally scared and excited to see the final result...got some more work done today - tackled the wiring and damn what a task that was...

got in there:
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had to take out the stupid heater because you can't pull out the wires without it...that thing is as big as the engine...
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and after a couple of hours of solid and very uncomfortable fight:

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then I got started on the head:
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ok - what the heck is the secret to taking the intake manifold and the coolant crack pipe off? there are two bolts on the coolant line that are inaccessible from the top and without taking that off you can't get the manifold...there's gotta be a trick of some kind...

and the first of the parts started coming in...
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hahaha - yeah I know the gaskets should be arriving last but at least it makes it look like it will actually be done one day :)

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Eurotrash Motorsports

2006 B7 2.0TDi Avant quattro - powered by Holset
1993 B4 20VT Avant quattro - powered by Holset


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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - 2.0E to 2.2T - electrical out...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:05 pm 
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You need a very long allen bit to stick through the IM. You see the holes at either end?

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95 Audi 80 converted to Quattro + AEB.


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 Post subject: Re: B4 Avant - 2.0E to 2.2T - electrical out...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:10 pm 
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mach 2 with my hair on fire
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Lol, My wiring harness looks very very similar.
Does targa require a restrictor? Good luck with the build. Also can you post some more detail pics of the cage? Have you just not gotten around to gussets yet?

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