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altz1

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hey, I am a fann on the v8 engine..but..is it wise to build audi v8 engines? I know 20vt are strong but they are so common... V8bi-turbo sounds a lot better to me...
My question is, how many horses can the stock parts of the v8 handle? Pistons? Rods? Crank?

Allar
 
How many horses would you be hapy with? The pistons from what I've read are a bit of a limiting factor with boost. If you can afford big horse power, then I think you can afford upgrading the v8. If you are building it on the cheap, your budget will probably be more of a limiting factor than the engine internals. 20vt have proven results. The V8 engines are still being explored.
 
More & more are being done to the V8 motors. Twin turbo is an option, supercharger is an option(but not explored) to the extent that TT'ing has.

But be prepared to get a 2nd job!!!
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
I am consideration this project cause I have a change to do everything my self accept pistons,rods,ems,and crank. Used t03 are cheap here, I have ic allredy, all the equipment (welding,pipes etc is free) double head gaskets are must-have and the programmable efi to...the pistons and rods are the things what I am worring about. I would like to start with low boost let say 7-9 psi max...this should do circa 420hp with normal A/F ratio...will the stock iron hold or is this a "white dream".... :(
 
Don't touch any of the lower end.
Just throw a few turbo mainfolds & K0's, EFI & be done with it. These V8's are torque monsters not HP monsters.

& I think that circa 420Hp is a pipe dream. Specially if your not willing to spend BIG $$$.
But anything can be done.
 
I would say the cost of parts and engine to install a V8 into a small chassis is about the same as cost to purchase and install of a 20vt. Neither are that cheap. 420hp is very capable on a stock 20vt engine with a bigger turbo etc.

I think the stock internals will hold up to what you have planned. Where are you located?
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
I am located in europa. the audi v8 engines ABH, AEC are not very expensive here circa 600-1500$ VEMS efi is a nother 1000$... Pipeing,IC,turbos,mainfolds and other costume parts are free for me...I mean the material is and I have done those things before...just curios if the stock bottom end can take a "little" extra power. I guess there is 1 way to find out...
 
altz1 said:
I am located in europa. the audi v8 engines ABH, AEC are not very expensive here circa 600-1500$
We Americans hate you over ponders enough all ready...you guys get all the GREAT cars & we get the scraps :p
***DISCLAIMER*** since you don't that I'm a jokester some of the time..now being one of those times :) I was only J/K'ing :) :)

altz1 said:
VEMS efi is a nother 1000$... Pipeing,IC,turbos,mainfolds and other costume parts are free for me...I mean the material is and I have done those things before...just curios if the stock bottom end can take a "little" extra power. I guess there is 1 way to find out...
The stock lower end of the V8 is as iron clad as the strength of our Dollar :wtf: :lol:..but seriously..
the V8 lower end is good. Not to sure about what kinda HP you can throw at it in it's stock form before things start to break down. But as you said you're in the middle of a Gold mine being over there as apposed to over as far as parts availability goes!

But I'd get in touch with Keith(RockinV8q)..he's pretty much the V8 authority around here...or any were for that matter :D
 
Quoted from the article above:

He also clearly has a decent relationship with Audi, because that 641bhp is produced by a heavily modified version of the previous-generation S8's 4163cc V8. The engine has 40 valves (handy when you're fuelling something producing 154bhp per litre), uprated rods, pistons and just about every other ancillary to cope with the added energy created by the addition of two enormous KKK turbochargers.

But here's the amazing bit: it uses the same crank. Despite producing 281bhp more than intended, the main reciprocating component of this engine is up to the task. Peak power comes at 6800rpm and the full 597lb ft of torque at 5000rpm. Silly numbers all of them, but now consider that pre-production cars weigh 1200kg and do the mathematics. It gives a power-to-weight ratio of 534bhp per tonne. A Ferrari Enzo has 476bhp per tonne, a Porsche Carrera GT 410 and the daddy of them all, the McLaren F1, had 551bhp per tonne at its disposal. But that's a little unrealistic, because the Apollo will weigh nearer 1100kg in production spec, turning 534 into 583bhp per tonne. As Herr Gumpert explains this in his slow, deliberate English I'm all ears, but matters become serene when he says the engine could easily run to 800bhp and that 1000PS, or 986bhp, was a definite possibility.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
Okey...so the crank should hold...pistons & rods.... are not sure. What do you guys think about the head gasket is it smarter to use double headgaskets or cut a fatter from copper? (Cu) to get the compression lower, I´d say 9.0:1 should be okey when we talk about low turbo pressure...
 
Main problem with the V8 engines is that internal engine parts such as bearings etc, are difficult to come by unless you want to machine the block to accept some bearings from another engine. Rod's are similar in construction to the vw ABA rods, and aren't nearly as beefy as the inline 5. I wouldn't take the stock rods past 500 hp. Pistons are nice forged units, but compression is turbo unfriendly. Then there's the issue of the alusil cylinder bores, which has been discussed in previous posts, and there are as many opinions as how to overbore a V8 as there are stripes on a zebra. The crankshaft is a work of art as is the engine block. When compared to other aluminium V8 engines, such as the caddy northstar, the audi engine takes the cake, hp for hp the audi engine is smaller, lighter, just as powerful, and more artistically designed. It's a shame that the performance aftermarket hasn't embraced these engines as the 3.6's are getting damned cheap.
Anyways I digress....
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
Well I have a 4.2 engine, and I do not want to overbore it if you ment that with the alusil issue...
Okey ..the bottom ends stays how it is , double headgaskets(lower compression ratio), costume exhaust mainflods, Garrett T03 turbos, inercooler, Standalone EFI, BOW, fuelpressure regulator,costume fuelrails,injectors,sensors + million other small things and we are good to go....we will see what the engine can take...

oh, 1 more thing, what do you guys think the compression ratio would be with doubled headgasket?
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
to: dustobub
Are you goging with stock internal? rods, pistons etc? If so my opinion would be eaton m90...absolutly no lag through the power curve and very low end torque etc... But I am using twin turbos, cause the used eaton is very hard to find and new costs way more than the engine itsself and I like the whistle of the turbos :) By the way is this true that Garrett T03 turbo can put out circa 230hp max ?
 
I'm sure there is a certain T03 that if it had the right wheels in it and it was on an engine with X amount of displacement it would only put out 230 hp max.

There are hundreds of different combinations of T3s out there all of which put out different HP levels on different sized engines.
 
Discussion starter · #20 ·
There are A LOT of 3.6 bi-turbo project around europa I know 2 of them running stock bottom @ 600hp. But why is the 3.6 better than 4.2? I dont think its about the price? Or what do you guys think?
 
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