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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
New guy here, looking for a bit of insight for my new project. Trying to stay as "low cost" as possible, so the stage 1 ecus look like the way to go. Since the car was originally a 4 cyl, I would imagine the stage 1b (fuel and ign) would be the least painfull way to go. Assuming this is correct, what (if anything) will I need to keep intact from the cars wiring? What else am I missing? Thanks guys... can't wait to get this project underway. :)
 

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ok, so if I understand correctly you want to put an Audi 10vt 5 cylinder into a Porsche 924? Cool :D

Yes, the stage Ib will run the engine fuel and ignition and is a good cost effective way to go. For the extra $150 you could go with the stage IIb which has more GPO's (General Purpose Outputs) to handle auxillary tasks that you might want.. plus (IIRC) it has the advantage of being software upgradeable to stage IIc (direct fire ignition) if you wanted to go that route further down the road.

You will probably run into some issues getting your tachometer to display correctly, but I bet javad can help you get that sorted out.

On you car's wiring, you aren't going to need any of the ECU wiring. You'll need to create a harness for the fuel and ignition systems to hook up to 034. The only thing you will need to connect other than power and ground to the rest of your cars existing electrical system will be the fuel pump (034 has a trigger for it that you can drive an external relay with), tach, and uh... that's about it :)

So I assume the I5 engines bolt up to the Porsche tranny?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The 924 4 cyl motor was basically an audi motor... all my research supports that the I5 bolts right up to the bellhousing. Motor mounts will have to be fabricated, but I don't think it'll be too bad. There were actually rumors back in the day about the "new" 924 being powered by an audi 5 cyl, but they decided to go with the turbo 4. Anyhow... I'm looking to build a cheap, lightweight street/autocross car that will be every bit as quick as a 951.

Regarding these GPOs, what are typical uses for them?

Other than that, thats good news... pretty much only the tach and the fuel pump. Sounds manageable.

Ah, one more quick question, what kind of power are people seeing out of stock 10vts with efi? I know my chipped 5ktq made some pretty impressive power, in fact it was faster than my UrS4 before it was modded. I would assume it makes the same, if not more power, than a properly chipped motor?

Thanks!
 

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mt dad has told me before that porsche made a 5cyl version of the 944, and i have looked everywhere and can't find anything on it, anywhere.

your project sounds like it'll be cool. i've always liked porsche's non-911 styling (ecxept the horrible 924) and i would like to one day maybe put a 30v audi v6 in a 914. that otta be fun. not too long ago in eurotuner or earopean car, there was a silver 914 with a chevy 350 and newer 911 rims. i saw that car once in sacramento,on the road no less. and man, it looked and sounded totally awesome.

anyhoo, i'm startin to pull a wiz like post hijack :wink: , so welcome to our ring of crazies and i look forward to seeing your car up and motorin' 8)
 

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yeah, fabricating motor mounts isn't a big deal. Depending on how far out the bolt locations on the motor are from the stock mounting points it may be easier to change the mounts on the engine bay side (This is what nate is doing for his v8 biturbo swap into his 90q).

On the GPOs, they can be used for basically anything requiring a variable output signal. The cool thing about them is that you can tune via the software interface when/how long the GPO pulses based on any of the input signals coming into the ecu (MAP, TPS, CLT, etc). For example, I'll be using one of them to drive a GM idle control motor. Other possible uses might be:


  • intercooler mister
    water injection
    nitrous
    making perfect slices of toast :D

on power output with everything else staying stock (stock boost, turbo, EM, etc) after proper tuning you'll probably see a small bump in max hp, maybe 10-20hp. The car willl definitely run noticably smoother on boost which is one of the first things I noticed when I was running everything stock except for the EFI.

The real holy shit type of power comes when you start upping the boost. The beauty of EFI is that you remove the limitations of the factory fuel system so your only limits are on the components in your motor (which are actually quite high for OEM parts). With stock internals and a stock manifold and turbo on an MC motor you can push around 300hp. More than that and you'll probably want to go with a bigger turbo. The stock EM will take you to around 350hp but your EGTs will start climbing fast at prolonged WOT (BTDT), which eats motors (ask Javad, he's BTDT :wink: ). Go with a header and you can get to around 400hp, at which point you have to start worrying about your connecting rods. Come back to us a few months after you think that's still not enough (there's never enough power, is there :p ) and there are ways to get up to around 500hp.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the informative posts, a4kquattro, I appreciate it. Sounds like this might work out afterall. As for the power output, I'm pretty impressed! I think ~350 would be about perfect with the car, probably run stock compenents on upped boost for a while, they do the manifold / turbo upgrade down the road. Thanks again, I'm sure I'll be back with more questions. :)

i've always liked porsche's non-911 styling (ecxept the horrible 924)
Hey now, whats not to love about a 2200lb rwd car with perfect weight distribution? Especially one with ~350 hp! :) Besides, they don't look to bad in 924gt bodywork.

 

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400hp, at which point you have to start worrying about your connecting rods.
We'll see! Dyno's at 2:30 sat. I'm going to talk some shit and say I'll have that at the wheels in SAE HP, if my clutch and turbo don't go up in smoke :bump:

My advice, I've got twice as many ideas for GPO's than GPO's, so get the most you can, and buy yourself an early bday gift and go with the stage II ecu. I've f'd with distributers for the last time, DIS is SOOOOOOOOOOO much nicer.

The GPO's make things simple because you can do the logic in the software. Sure you can mimic some functions other ways, but you're have pressure switches, vacuum lines, throttle switches, temp sensors, and who knows what else strung about the engine.

Can anyone else tell I'm high on Mountain Dew right now :wtf:
 

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sirhc said:
i've always liked porsche's non-911 styling (ecxept the horrible 924)
Hey now, whats not to love about a 2200lb rwd car with perfect weight distribution? Especially one with ~350 hp! :) Besides, they don't look to bad in 924gt bodywork.

oops, i guess i worded that wrong. i meant i didn't really like the 924 as a car. they just seem so cheap and breakish, no offence to your preferences. also, isn't the 951 basically a turboed 944 model?
 

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MT Dew comes from the rockies right? I think it was a by product of some process at rocky flats eh?

Cool project!!! I drove a modded 944t awhile ago......wow awesome driving car.

Aaron

I'm watching this project :D
 

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audifreakjim said:
We'll see! Dyno's at 2:30 sat. I'm going to talk some shit and say I'll have that at the wheels in SAE HP, if my clutch and turbo don't go up in smoke :bump:
I'd love it if the stock connecting rods can take 400hp worth of abuse, saves some $$ in custom connecting rods once I get up in that HP range :thanks:

Otherwise, please post pics of the carnage, especially, if applicable, a picture of a conrod shaped hole in your hood :woowoo:

:p
 

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Careful about the 5cyl and 4cyl bell housings. I've been told they are not the same. For some reason, when Audi bolted a 4cyl to the older 016 AWD box, they had an "intermediate plate" between the block and engine.

I do know that the 01A, which has had the I5, I4, and V6 bolted to it, has basically two bolt patterns. One for the 4 cyl, and one for the 5/6 cyl (also fits the V8's).

I can't figure out what the "intermediate plate" is for by looking at the european fiche....
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
cuatrokoop said:
Careful about the 5cyl and 4cyl bell housings. I've been told they are not the same. For some reason, when Audi bolted a 4cyl to the older 016 AWD box, they had an "intermediate plate" between the block and engine.

I do know that the 01A, which has had the I5, I4, and V6 bolted to it, has basically two bolt patterns. One for the 4 cyl, and one for the 5/6 cyl (also fits the V8's).

I can't figure out what the "intermediate plate" is for by looking at the european fiche....
I know that the audi 4 cyl bellhousing are different from the 5 cyl bellhousings, but I think the 924 4 cyl ones are a different story. I need to find someone nearby with a 924 bellhousing so I can make sure of the fit... I've got the engine, still looking for the car. :)

Again, most of this is based on hearsay and internet conversations, definitely nothing concrete. Any other info would be great! Thanks...
 
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