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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, just got off the phone with Moss at Ferrea (pronounced: Fer-a-uh).

They can do a production run of 1 set to 60+, however they'd prefer to do either a handful in their small shop or 60+(300 intake and 300 exhaust) in their main production facility. However, there is a significant cost difference.

For a few sets (up to 30), price would be $500/set of ten ($45 for blank and labor for the intake, $55 for the blank and labor for the exhaust, labor is $25/valve).

For 60+ sets, price could be as low as $170/set.

Valves would be 40mm stainless for the intake (8mm stem) and 33mm inconel for the exhaust (8mm). I have to send them an intake valve with upper seat and lock/cotter set, same for the exhaust. Turn around time is around three weeks from the order date. Payment must be made before production starts.

I'm posting on the 80/90, type44, 4k/CGT, and urq/SQ forums. Hopefully I won't get in trouble by doing that. If someone wants to send a message out to the quattro list (er, AudiFans) please do so.

Anything less than 30 people, I will not place a bulk order. We could also just do either the intake or exhaust if people don't want to spend as much (I'd probably get the exhausts made, and buy the factory 40mm valve unless you already have a 40mm intake).

If you are interested, EMAIL ME at fergusoe at purdue dot edu.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Jim...Sorry for the confusion, poor wording on my part.

The $55 includes the machining, which is $25 (so the material is $30 for the inconel and $20 for the stainless).

For a single set of exhaust valves, you'd be at $55*5=$275 if we don't get enough people.

To do a full scale run to drop the price down to absolute minimum, you still need 300 valves made, which is 60 sets of 5 valves (for a full set of ten, you need 300 of each I and E, so 600 total, which is still 60 sets).

I really don't want to have overlapping valve seats, just kinda "eh?" to me, hence my desire to stay with 33mm. Plus, going to a 35mm would require someone to redesign the seating surface on the valve as I cannot find any evidence of VAG using one in an 8mm stem with a 3-groove lock/cotter. They ideally want a valve with upper retainer and locks/cotters to A)get dimensions and B)do a quality control check against the factory part.
 

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OK, Javad help me out with this

40/35 combo easily fits, you'll need new valve seats all around, and the exh. seat should be cut into the intake seat completely eliminating the alum between the seats stock.

This is how the 10v 2.3 I built was, but I ended up selling this motor to fund the 2.3 20v project.

Inconnel for exh. valves is a very good idea, I sourced some for my head for about $35 each.
So where did you get the 35 mm inconel valves, and which seats did you use?
 

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"Eh? ...is that an engineering term? :D

I had the machine shop that assembled my head source 3 set of valves for 3 heads I had done (2 for customers, etc), see pics:

http://www.80tq.com/albums/?mode=album& ... %2F2.3_10v

That's a 40/35 combo, Inconel exh. valve, stock 40mm intake valve. Frankly no point in making a 40mm intake valve IMO, when the stock one works so well.

Also, notice the overlaping seats. At Eurospec we built 42/36 2.0l race heads like this, 250hp and 9krpm, no "Eh-ing" going on :wink:

I also ported this head, 160cfm on the intake side, 130 of the exh. I really wish I could have run this head, it turned out really nice, but I'm on to the 20v project.

I think the valves I had made ended up being from Manley, Ferrea makes some great valves too. If you were afraid of the going with bigger seats, then I'd say do a 38/35mm combo, again, no point in doing a 33mm valve when you need the flow so badly. But, 40/35 is definitely the way to go.
 

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Thanks Javad. Nice pics, that's exactly what I'm looking for. Ok, stupid question. When porting a head like this, do you do the porting before or after the larger seats go in? It would make more sense to do it after so you can match everything up. Would one just put a shitload of tape on the seats to protect them from any mishaps? I'll see what the local shops say on the valves.
 

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You do it both, I do most of the porting before as to not jack up the new seats, and do a little bit of work in the bowl area but leave most of it for later. The I have the new seats put in with the ID bored out but no valve face cut, then finish off the bowl, then have them cut the seats. You want to do as much porting as you can before things like the valves have been cut, new guides put in, head surfaced, etc.

Its always a good idea to cut out a cardboard template (from an old HG, or sometimes I'll bolt an old headgasket to the bottom of the head) so that you don't put a huge gouge in your head surface. :frustrated:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Javad, that CAN be an engineering term ;-) God knows how many other words engineers have made up or used oddly to descibe something. I had started to keep track of them from just one class for one semester, and stopped at around 10 made-up words.

Anyway, so far not near enough people have contacted me for any sort of valve. So, as of earlier this afternoon I agreed to buy a set of 40mm factory valves from someone and am extremely close to stopping work on the GB. I really wish the cutoff was not 300 of each valve but I undestand the company's position on maintaining their bottom line. Just sucks for those of us that wanted a sweet deal on SS and inconel valves. What I don't understand is that some people have flat out said that SS and inconel are not needed and those that have had problems with valves must have had knock/ping or extremely high EGTs. Well, I just don't see how some of that can be the case when a few of the problem cars were using unmolested QLCC coded MAC11's (or other types), et cetera.

Another factor is that I need to get the engine up and running, so I can work on the rest of the stuff (new hydraulic system lines, new caliper carriers/rotors/pads up front, new main and tender springs for the suspension, minor body repair work too).

If anyone wants a set of one-off valves, get a hold of Moss at Ferrea. He can do intakes up to 47mm and exhausts up to 41mm in an 8mm stem.

As a "parting thought" it may be beneficial to look into running the later 12v's 7mm stem setup (40/33), which uses a single spring and only an upper retainer and different lock/cotter (two groove I think?). Less mass in the valve train, less stuff in the way to impede flow.
 

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i was wondering if strait SS valves are tougher longevity wise then the sodium filled?

also, javad, that head in the pics is the one that you ported to flow 190 wasn't it? did you port just around the valve area mostly, it's hard to see in the pics. the head i'm working on is considerably more worked over around the valve guide and the floor of the port. i'll put some pics up when it's done.
check out this dudes combustion chambers, talk about beautiful. looks like some sorta display piece :p http://www3.sympatico.ca/borism/Headwork/Exhead.jpg
http://www3.sympatico.ca/borism/Headwork/Export2.JPG and this very nice exhaust port.
 

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Derek, it flowed about 160 intake, up from about 125 stock. Its about flow #'s, not worked over or shiney, looks can be VERY decieving. Nuff said.

I wouldn't waste my time with stainless exh. valves, go straight for Inconnel or super high temp alloy.
 
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