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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, some of you may know me from AW.....

I'm sourcing all the good for my new project and am set on the 034efi. For those who don't know, I've got a B3 80 4cyl Manual. I'm taking the 3A 4 cyl, rebuilding and throwing the 16V PL head and intake on top. T3/T4, and 034efi IIb. Woohoo! Should be fun when I'm done, especially from a 2500 pound car.

Anyways, my hopes are around 210-220 horse at 15psi. I don't think that's too much to ask, for now :)

I have some questions on injector choice. What's an ideal CC / lbs to go with for this app? I was pondering whether either stock Ford Mustang, SHO injectors would suffice, or should I go with something a little higher. I don't know jack about choosing injectors for this set-up as this is the first EFI project I've done.

LATER!

TIM
 

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strong bad rules !!!! ok,on to injectors. for 210-220 horse,you should look into injectors in the 350cc(or 33 lb/hr range,maybe even a bit bigger.remember you can always go with a shorter pulsewidth. check around on ebay for injectors,I always see sets of four on there for anywhere from $100-300,just depends.
happy thanksgiving
 

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Hey Tim, welcome to the forum. First off, great project, you'll be very happy with a 16v turbo, and great choice on the engine management =)

Well, a 2.0 16v running 15psi is going to make a lot more than 210hp IME, I'd say you should be expecting much closer to 300. When sourcing injectors, you don't want to have to constantly upgrade them, and there isn't a problem with having really big injectors as long as you plan on growing into them. I'd say you should really consider a 50lb injector minimum. The 034 system will run any impedance injector, so no worries there, but you're not going to find any Ford Mustang injectors much over 30lb. You should be able to find some injectors for new for around $70 each, email me privately and we can chat more about details.

The other option is to find some really small cheapies and use them to get the car running and a baseline tune, but remember that once you change you injectors, you need to retune your maps as well, so it really comes down to your budget and what you're trying to do.

Anyway, keep us posted on your project, I'd love to add yours to the featured users page sometime soon =)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Will the stock 3A pistons hold the boost or am I going to have to source some forged ones? Trouble is, G60 or MC pistons won't work, and I'm trying to keep the budget tight as is.

What do you guys think? Will the cast pistons hold up? Trouble is, if I go forged, I have to find ones to keep the OE 3A CR, because the PL16V head's large combustion chambers are going to drop it down to 8.5:1.

This is a tough one...I'd hate to put this thing together just to see the stock cast pistons fail, but then again, VW/Audi pistons can be pretty stout.
 

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Yes, an injector size calculator is definitely in order

WRT the cast pistons, they will hold up fine for mild boost, say up to 10psi. Cast pistons are plenty strong to hold the power levels, but problem is they are not very resistant to any pinging activity. Where a forged piston will hold up much better under detonation, a cast piston wil quickly disintegrate.

Obviously this is only a saftey margin concern, not that you're going to be driving around with a detonating car, but your margin of saftey is greatly reduced if and when you do encounter some detonation.

Unfortunatley there is no such thing as real low budget, big HP, but I'd say if you kept boost levels below 12psi and kept a close eye on tuning, you'd be fine and turn something in the 250hp range quite easily. A set of 4 cyl JE pistons is around $5-600 however, and its not that much to ensure you have a motor that lives a while and also that can take you to the higher power levels.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yeah, it looks like we're going to have to stick with the cast for now. The trouble is, the 16V head will drop me down to 8.5:1, and usuing the 3A engine, I'd have to find a forged set of 3A pistons @ OE compression. :x

It would be nice if I could use an MC piston, which, if I was working with an NA 1.8, I could do it. THe 3A, however, uses the 82.5mm bore as apposed to the 81 of the MC and other VW 4cyls.

My hopes were to stick around 14-15psi and hit 210-220 horse at the wheels, if I can get that with the cast pistons I'll be happy. Really, I guess, it's just a matter of proper tuning. The cast pistons could probably hold upwards of 18psi and 300 horse if tuned properly and no detonation, but that's unlikely as this is a big learning experience too.

O well, I'll just set it up, and if I blow it up, I'll build it again! :woowoo:
 

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repeater said:
Yeah, it looks like we're going to have to stick with the cast for now. The trouble is, the 16V head will drop me down to 8.5:1, and usuing the 3A engine, I'd have to find a forged set of 3A pistons @ OE compression. :x

It would be nice if I could use an MC piston, which, if I was working with an NA 1.8, I could do it. THe 3A, however, uses the 82.5mm bore as apposed to the 81 of the MC and other VW 4cyls.

My hopes were to stick around 14-15psi and hit 210-220 horse at the wheels, if I can get that with the cast pistons I'll be happy. Really, I guess, it's just a matter of proper tuning. The cast pistons could probably hold upwards of 18psi and 300 horse if tuned properly and no detonation, but that's unlikely as this is a big learning experience too.

O well, I'll just set it up, and if I blow it up, I'll build it again! :woowoo:
i got a set of forged pistons
$400US...used for 2 weeks....then asshole brother wrote off the car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hmmm. What kind are they? And they are 3A stock Compression pistons? I know a few companies like Suloy and such make 8.5 ones, but I never saw anyone who made the reg 10.5:1 compression pistons.

If so, that's awesome!
 

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Sure, just take it "one psi at a time" so to speak, I think you'll be amazed at what 10psi and 250hp will do, but you won't be happy with it for too long, just ask Jim G for starters...don't ask Nate S. though, he is truly insane and his response may drive you mad, or cause you to run off a cliff :lol:
 

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Yea, and we all have you to thank for our insanity :wtf: Actually, if you go stage IIc, and get yourself an APC knock light, you can get the car tunned pretty damn quick and easy. Pretty easy with stage IIb also, but if you saw the accuracy of IIc, you'd pay the extra$ Take it in small increments like Javad said. The nice thing about the Saab APC system is it will alert you to knock even before you can hear it. If you can limit yourself to just a few blips on the light without hearing anything, you should be good to go. Or try and get your motor down to 8:1 CR so you can boost the sh*t out of it and not worry to much :woowoo: BTW, I'm going back to MC pistons as soon as I can blow up my current motor. I'm going to see how strong those two stacked headgaskets really are. 2.65 bar MAP sensor~ 24 psi of boost. Excellent. :bashtard: I love that icon.

Javad is right though. There is something to be said about having a really strong bottom end. I definately hit a wall on my current motor's CR with the MC2 pistons and shaved head. I installed it thinking, I'll never want more than 400 hp on pump gas. Well...... :stupid: stacking head gaskets has helped get over that wall, but if I would have just stayed with a regular MC motor, I wouldn't be faced with all this right now. Infact I'd probably be putting together a motor like Javad's 20vt because 500 hp isn't enough. I guess that's for next year :wink: I'm going to need a bigger turbo soon :bullshits:

My name is Jim and I have a problem...
 

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Well for the 81mm bore you can use UR-Quattro pistons...dont know how good they are.
But the 3A has 82.5mm bore and Suloy as wella s JE Pistons sell them.I got these from germany,they are aftermarket and they will lower the compression of the engine to 8:5:1
 

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Ok repeater
found this....its the 1.9TDI from england.Its the inline 4 head.
You must decide however where you want your turbo charger.
You have 2 options:
getting some sort fo management and placing the turbo between the fender and the head like Javad or snug nicely like the picture under the intake manifold.
 

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JShadzi said:
Sure, just take it "one psi at a time" so to speak, I think you'll be amazed at what 10psi and 250hp will do, but you won't be happy with it for too long, just ask Jim G for starters...don't ask Nate S. though, he is truly insane and his response may drive you mad, or cause you to run off a cliff :lol:
Hey now, I resemble that remark.... 8)
 

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Wizard-of-OD said:
Well for the 81mm bore you can use UR-Quattro pistons...dont know how good they are.
But the 3A has 82.5mm bore and Suloy as wella s JE Pistons sell them.I got these from germany,they are aftermarket and they will lower the compression of the engine to 8:5:1
I'm pretty sure the pistons out of a WX or WR are forged. They would also have the cutout in the piston skirt for the oil sprayers. If you're shooting for "only" 250hp, everything I know about them indicates they'd be capable of handling it.
 

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hubbardjt said:
Wizard-of-OD said:
Well for the 81mm bore you can use UR-Quattro pistons...dont know how good they are.
But the 3A has 82.5mm bore and Suloy as wella s JE Pistons sell them.I got these from germany,they are aftermarket and they will lower the compression of the engine to 8:5:1
I'm pretty sure the pistons out of a WX or WR are forged. They would also have the cutout in the piston skirt for the oil sprayers. If you're shooting for "only" 250hp, everything I know about them indicates they'd be capable of handling it.
he means inline 4 guy :?
Audi 2.0E
for inline 5 id guy WR anyday
 
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