I need some clarification on B3 10v suspension variations

2304 Views 15 Replies 8 Participants Last post by zarati, Oct 8, 2013

ur20v

Discussion Starter · Jun 19, 2013

Over the weekend I picked up an '88 80q that has been sitting behind a shop for the last 12 years. Previous owners dropped it off to have a new clutch, flywheel and RMS installed and never came to pick it up. Over the years the interior dry rotted away and various parts and pieces disappeared, but the body is straight and rust-free and all the glass is intact.

I was doing research on swapping 5x112 hubs on these cars, and came across the info referencing the change in 04/1988 from one-piece to 2-piece struts. As luck would have it, this particular car was manufactured in 03/1988. But as I checked it out, I found something confusing. The rear of the car indeed has 1-piece struts, but, the front of the car has 2-piece. Is this common? Its a little difficult finding exact information, but I just assume when people refer to a car as having one-piece or two-piece struts they mean all 4 corners - am I right? or are they just referring to the rears?

Based on what I have dug up, I need 5kq (or possibly 200 FWD front) hubs for the rear and B5 A4q rear hubs for the front. Does this sound right?

At this point I am keeping everything low-budget on this build, so unless I come across a complete late B3 rear subframe/suspension for free I'm going to keep what's on there.

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varia

· #2 · Jun 19, 2013

once you upgrade it to two pieces struts
you would need the following (for a CQ, im not 100% sure about 1988 80q)

For the front:
hub - s2/urs4/urs6/v8 front hub OR V8 rear hub if the v8 had UFO brake. other then the S2 hubs, these needs to be machined a bit
bearing - 82mm wheel bearing
brake disk/rotor - s2 rotor OR redrill the cq rotor and space (washer) the caliper a bit OR use a A4 B6 front rotor
brake caliper - CQ caliper (G60)
brake caliper bracket - CQ caliper bracket

for the rear:
hub - A4 B5Q rear hub, bolts on
bearing - 75mm wheel bearing
brake disk/rotor - A4 B5Q rear disk
brake caliper - CQ Caliper (G38) because the e-brake pull (side), A4 B5Q will bolt on, but pull from the back, ie cable not long enough
brake caliper bracket - A4 B5Q rear

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ur20v

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jun 19, 2013

I've done that before on CQs and a B4. However, CQ/20v sedan and B4s use larger bearings than 10v, so none of that applies. Cars with 1-piece rear struts (4kq, early B3q) utilize 25-spline outer CVs, so none of that applies to the rear, either.

varia

· #4 · Jun 19, 2013

ahh ok, then you have to wait someone smarted comes in play then me

PGE 27M

· #5 · Jul 9, 2013

Sorry for the threadjack, but I was hoping for some clarification on this:

varia said:
brake disk/rotor - s2 rotor OR redrill the cq rotor and space (washer) the caliper a bit OR use a A4 B6 front rotor

I know the V8/UrS hubs move sit ~5mm inboard from the stock coupe hubs. The most common solution I've seen to this is, as you mentioned, redrilled cq rotors, with washers to space the caliper bracket inboard. I also came across a solution from another member on here, "nudebowl" that used, I believe, non UFO 5ktq/200tq front rotors. These apparently put the rotor even further outboard than necessary to make up for the V8/UrS hubs (opposite problem of the stock rotors). The solution to this, is to machine 5mm off of the inside of the caliper carrier where it bolts to the knuckle in order to move the carrier outboard to line up with the rotors. I like this idea better than washers, but it's still not perfect. I haven't heard of using the B6 front rotors before. Is this a bolt on solution without needing to space the caliper out in either direction? If so, that would save a lot of effort.

-Dave

paradox11235

· #6 · Oct 3, 2013

Bump for Dave's question and also, converting to two piece struts means swapping rear axles then?
Sorry for the second thread jack...

DE80q

· #7 · Oct 3, 2013

Dont know about the B6 rotors, but when converting to 2 piece rear struts, you will also need the rear axels.

mrmotorhead13

· #8 · Oct 4, 2013

To address something that hasn't been... all B3's had two piece front struts, the change was only to the rear.

AudiSport4000

· #9 · Oct 4, 2013

I have the same mutt suspension on mine (early 88 build). I couldnt find ANY rear axles for my car, anywhere, except Shokan.

Didnt some of the 4cyl fwd cars have 1 piece struts up front?

paradox11235

· #10 · Oct 4, 2013

Pulling the one piece rear struts sucks I found out today... Definitely want to convert.

mrmotorhead13

· #11 · Oct 5, 2013

AudiSport4000 said:
I have the same mutt suspension on mine (early 88 build). I couldnt find ANY rear axles for my car, anywhere, except Shokan.

Didnt some of the 4cyl fwd cars have 1 piece struts up front?

I bolted the rear suspension from my 4KQ right onto my '88 90Q axles and all... unless the outer CV is different the axles should work on an early 80/90

ur20v

Discussion Starter · #12 · Oct 7, 2013

I'm swapping the rear suspension out of my CQ into the 80 right after I press in new bearings and B5 hubs. One piece struts? Ain't nobody gots time fo dat!

AudiSport4000

· #13 · Oct 7, 2013

mrmotorhead13 said:
AudiSport4000 said:

I have the same mutt suspension on mine (early 88 build). I couldnt find ANY rear axles for my car, anywhere, except Shokan.

Didnt some of the 4cyl fwd cars have 1 piece struts up front?

Click to expand...

I bolted the rear suspension from my 4KQ right onto my '88 90Q axles and all... unless the outer CV is different the axles should work on an early 80/90

I wanted to keep ABS and the 4kq housings dont have the provision for the sensor, IIRC.

zarati

· #14 · Oct 7, 2013

ur20v said:
I've done that before on CQs and a B4. However, CQ/20v sedan and B4s use larger bearings than 10v, so none of that applies. Cars with 1-piece rear struts (4kq, early B3q) utilize 25-spline outer CVs, so none of that applies to the rear, either.

I'm running 2pc rears on the back of my Urq which has the same 25-spline CV's as a 4kq or early B3. Offset will be higher (further out) on mine than what you are likely looking for but I used 5ktq/200q front hubs in the rear housings. Had to do the same machining trick that you need to do with the S4 hubs. Then I used UR-S4 calipers and carriers with 2002 A6 4.2 rear rotors which are 269mm vented. Similar to the UR-S4 rear vented rotors but these are a little thicker and have less offset in the hat.

Pics and discussion here:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18511&hilit=urq&start=50

The issue for you would be tire clearance but honestly, this setup shouldn't put it to far out. Seems to be in between stock 4kq/90q rear and urq rear which was pushed quite a bit further out.

mrmotorhead13

· #15 · Oct 8, 2013

I still had ABS after I put the 4KQ struts on, been long enough I don't remember details but I don't recall it being a hassle.

zarati

· #16 · Oct 8, 2013

For ABS I think you could probably Audi 5000q outers. They should have the ABS Ring. Gotta make sure you have the axles to support it though. My Urq/4ktq used the same size outers. 90q I think uses the smaller CV's with the 30mm nut though instead of the 32mm nut.

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