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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys, just thought I'd update the forum about my 20v project since I'm getting a lot of q's about it. Here is the parts list:

-7A, 2.3 block bored to 83mm
-.070 Copper head gasket, block 0-ringed with reciever groove in cylinder head (now custom MLS/Copper 034 gasket)
-034EFI 144mm rods
-JE 83mm pistons, total seal oil and compression rings, chromoly top ring
-New stock valves
-Head ported and flowed, intake to 225cfm up from 190 stock
-272/264 CAT Cams (now 7A Cams)
-Autotech HD valve springs
-Autotech Vernier cam pulley
-034efi proto-tube-header (now production piece, mandrel bent 304SS)
-3B intake manifold to start, eventually custom intake manifold. (current 034EFI High Output IM)
-Garrett GT40R, GT42RS turbo current as of Dec 2005
-4" to 3.5" downpipe, no exhuast.
-Dual 044 fuel pumps with -10AN fuel feed line (5/8")
-034efi Stage IIc, of course, with 4BAR MAP Sensor

I'll post some pics later this week, questions/comments welcome.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Oh yes, I think I'll stick with my current T3/T4 Hybrid for now, just rebuilt it and replaced the turbine. Eventually I'd like to run the GT28 hybrid we're working on or the new GT30.

Yes, I'm going to redo a bunch of the engine compartment since some of it was aging, I'd like to even paint the engine compartment, we'll see, the motor should be done by end of Feb or so.
 

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Do you happen to know if the GT flange is the same as the T3?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
No, its different, but there are some GT turbo models that use a T3 flange as well.
 

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Huh, you sure are using some funny shaped valves....
 

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newt said:
Huh, you sure are using some funny shaped valves....
nate, come on now, haven't you heard of these new high flow angled valves. one word of caution though, you have to install the valves angled to correspond with the angle of the port in the head. other wise you just might as well stick with stock style valves :wink:

hey is that a copper head gasket? how much does one of those bad boys run and was it custom made for you javad?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ya, that was one of the intake valves that came out of the head, all 10 looked like that, if you notice the stock cam gear stripped (probably not torqued properly), thus the Autotech gear.

Yes, copper, I have them made, about $150, reuseable.
 

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at first i didn't see all of your parts list and missed the copper head gasket.
but anyway, hows that works with the head o-ringed and the copper gasket, do the water and oil passage ways seal with just the gasket or do they too have to be o-ringed?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
No, just the comb chambers are o-ringed, there is a reciever groove for the o-ring so everything lays flat, a coating is sprayed on the gasket to ensure the oil and water passeges seal up right.
 

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Very nice setup Javad.

Once my motor blows up I'll be heading in a similar direction component wise :D

I keep hearing talk about certain rod bearing PN's that are stronger than others.. are you using 7A bearing shells or the S4 ones people keep talking about?

I'm thinking if I can pick up a set of new stock rings and bearings for not a lot of $$ I could always at least throw those into my junkyard 2.3 setup to feel like I've done _SOMETHING_ to it ;)

Keep us posted.. this almost feels like a race now.. who's 20vt will run first. hehehe :bump:
 

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JShadzi said:
Yes, copper, I have them made, about $150, reuseable.
Do you have the CAD drawings for them to be cut from?

Any chance you can post some detailed pics of the o-ring groved block. Is the head groved for an o-ring as well, and the copper is a flat mating surface, or??

Just trying to sort out all my options to drop the compression in the V8, and a 2-3mm copper gasket would do wonders methinks.

Looks like a really nice setup, and with the stock V8 headgaskets in the silly price ranges they are (cheaper to buy the $220 HG kit), and the fact that I would need two of them, I really wouldn't mind spending the same cash to have a more reliable end result.
 

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what would be more economical?
Buying pistons to lower compression or getting Copper Gasket?
Reason why i asked is because i know Audi/VW pistons are bullet proof so getting dished out pistons would be just like buying a thicker head gasket right?
 

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No, not the same. Running a spacer (thick gasket) can screw with the combustion chamber properties. The swirl/mixing/etc will be different because the quench zone will be differently shaped. Or something like that...An ICE guy can much better explain it. Buying properly designed pistons is better. Thick gaskets are fine for heads that have been shaved to correct warping. Generally not the greatest way to decrease the static CR.
 

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FWIW I'm running two ur-s4 gaskets right now, and have had nothing but good results. I'd expect the CR is down to around 8:1 based on how many times my head's been milled. It may not be as good as a single with 8:1 pistons, but I've been able to recover about 4 degrees of advance, and the car pulls much harder on boost than before. I haven't put to many miles on it, but soo far they're holding up to the abuse. I figure when these go, the whole motors coming out, or at least the pistons and head are being swapped. :bashtard:
 

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cuatrokoop said:
No, not the same. Running a spacer (thick gasket) can screw with the combustion chamber properties. The swirl/mixing/etc will be different because the quench zone will be differently shaped. Or something like that...An ICE guy can much better explain it. Buying properly designed pistons is better. Thick gaskets are fine for heads that have been shaved to correct warping. Generally not the greatest way to decrease the static CR.
Yup, thats all true, got any lower CR pistons for a PT V8 though? ;)

The all alu blocks use special pistons not found in the other iron examples. Otherwise a set of VW pistons would work just fine. Not so in my case, so sacrifices need to be made. I think being able to turbocharge the engine with the lowered CR will more than make up for the inefficiencies of the thicker HG. :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I don't have the cad, I used www.headgasket.com, I sent them a stock gasket and they drew it up, etc, though doing a CAD wouldn't be tough, just throw it in a scanner.

Copper spacer for HG would work, I agree with what has been said about increasing the quench area (distance between top of the piston and the bottom of cyl head, but spacers have proven to work, so I wouldn't rule it out all together as has also been mentioned. If you're looking to absolutely optimize everything, as I am, you'll end up with a 1mm quench area, but I've ran up to 3mm with fine results.

The 7A components are far weaker than the MC 10v, the MC 10v's are THE STRONGEST GAS I5 MOTORS EVER BUILT, PERIOD. What I will be using, however, which are better than the comprable MC parts, are the S4 rod and crank bearing sets, they use hardened components to handle higher stress applicatioins, but no reason the 7A stuff won't work, but for a small price difference the S4 parts are tougher. All the Audi ring sets are very high quality.

I'll take detailed pics of the o-ringing process when its complete, I'll likely write up an article outlining the buildup of this engine, something sort of technical and not afraid of aftermarket solutions.
 

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I never said "don't do it" wrt the thicker head gasket, just that it is less than ideal to drop the CR. Nate's case is special (I thought Alex was doing the PT swap in his 90q20v?), the V8's are b!tches to get stuff for from what I have found in some minor research (was looking at a V8q).

I really don't see why you can say that the MC stuff (which stuff, the bearing shells? Rods? Pistons? Crank?) is much stronger than the comparable 7A stuff. You'd have to be an MSE/metalurgist to begin to say which is better from a materials stand point. As far as design, you'd have to be an ME/Aero-Propulsion/MET. Same goes for manufacturing processes. Honestly, from just looking at the 7A and MC I have had apart, the only gripe I have is with the large groove in the 7A main bearings (they are there for oiling most likely). EDIT The grove looked to be larger on the 7A bearing than what I remember on the MC bearing. /EDIT However, since I bypassed the hydrodynamic bearing design portion in my Machine Design class, I can not say with much certainty that that particular feature is a major down fall.

The bearings I pulled from both blocks looked to be not so good. Both had noticable axial wear on the thrust washers at #4 main, and all mains showed similar amount of wear. The two engines were supposedly w/in 5k miles of eachother, BUT I suspect that the MC had more in the 190k mile range vs the 155k miles indicated on the odo. Also, the 7A I took apart had been blown by a certain company in Detriot (hint: company is defunct) and had enough bits to make two complete valve stem seals in the oil sump and two large "kiss marks" on the #3 piston top as well as some severe gouging in the #3 cyl. wall. There was no excessive play or bearing wear in either engine however.
 
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