My 4KQGTDI-M project

There was very few updates today as I mostly worked on the house. I had to repair the gutters to stop them blowing water everywhere. I had time to swtich the engine to gearbox dowel sleeves to old school style, I removed the engine brackets on both my spare 2.2 gasser and the new 2.5 TDI and I sprayed the 4000 brackets with wd-40 because they were badly corroded. I compared the LH engine brackets and I won't be able to use the bracket with the fuel filter.


I also compared the stock turbo on the TDI (which appears to be a K16 according to the tag) and the new one from a 5000TD (That's what I've been told and it's supposed to be a K24 but the tag doesn't show) and finally they are almost the same: turbine and compressor wheel size and trim are identical, the only differences are 1- the new turbo's turbine is concentric to the output flange, 2-the wastegate orientation (both will clear the frame no problem) and 3- the wastegate actuator of the TDI has two ports instead of one (one direct to compressor housing port and the other probably was hooked to a valve)


Finally, I confirmed that the flywheel bolts are the same on at least all 10v engines and I compared the 016 (1T) flywheel and the 01A/01E (AAT) one. You'll see that I resurfaced one with a mouse sander... The dish in the 016 flywheel is 19mm deep and the 01A/01E one is 14mm but weight is similar because the back is different. The distance from the engine flange to the clutch cover mounting surface is the same so one could cut the pilot bearing housing out of the 01A/01E flywheel on a lathe and then use it with a 016 gearbox.



Here are left to right the Sachs Race Engineering, the Sachs OEM for the 1T flywheel and the Luke made by Sachs one from the AAT. The 1T one releases further than the others but the Sachs tech rep gave the SRE that I have as a replacement for the 1T one so for now I'll hope he was right...

On this pic we see that the springs doesn't have the same shape on the 1T cover. I wondered if it is related to the release bearing fork shape. I have both types here and as far as I know they interchange but I don't know if there could be reasons why one would be better than the other... I just hope the release bearing and cover stroke are well sorted the first time...


So that's it for now, more tomorrow.

Not enough progress for my taste today neither... I worked on the house all day long...again... But now I'm done so I'll be able to do more on the engine tomorrow. What I've done today is cleaning the engine brackets with stainless wire, then stainless wool and then in the sink with dish soap: no choice I have no dishwasher!

I've put two coats of engine finish and I'll install them tomorrow.

I have the flywheel bolts, I had to purchase 6 at one dealer and two at another dealer... :wtf: , but I didn't install the flywheel because I'll wait the confirmaion from Sachs that the stroke of the SRE clutch cover will fit the deeper flywheel dish. If not, I'll have to ask a machine shop to cut the center of the 01E flywheel on a lathe to remove the pilot bearing housing.

I also found that the K16 3 bolt flange is the same as all the exhaust pipe flanges on a 4000, so instead of making one I'll buy it from an exhaust shop when I go by there.

By the time I was hanging in the big shed I call my garage I measured the engine block's height of both the 2.2 gasser and the 2.5 TDI and the TDI's block is only 1/2" taller. I tought there would be a bigger difference. The overall height of both engines are about the same because the AAT's intake is shorter than the gasser's one because the runners on the gasser's intake are vertical and the AAT's intake runners are slant.

Tomorrow I'll also remove the clutch fan. Does anyone know if special tools are needed to lock the pulley while I loosen the clutch fan's hexagon? I could just lock the pulley with a "chain type" vise grip but it's a bit ******* for my taste...

So that's all for tonight.

Sweet project and good progress. I like the attention to detail you're putting into cleaning it up. A clean diesel engine compartment looks even nicer than a clean gasser engine compartment becauses there's so many fewer hoses and wires.

I'm all in favor of throwing out the electronics on these engines. Pure mechanical means it's that much more reliable. No MAF sensor, IAT sensor, MAP sensor, CEL, fuel temp sensor, injector lift sensor, drive-by-wire pedals, and ECU to go bad. Who did the conversion from electronic to mechanical on your pump? Do you mind if I ask how much it cost?

I'm not sure what your plan is for the glow plugs, but I have experience wiring up the standard old-style GP relay, etc. I can also recommend which heavy duty connectors/terminals to use to get the job done right.

BTW, the TDI's block is 16mm taller than the 2.2 gasser (236mm vs. 220mm). You probably noticed that the extra "tallness" is added to the top surface of the block. The distance of all of the mounting holes on the block are the same relative to the bottom of the block as your 2.2 gasser block. This means all of the engine brackets should fit perfectly. The slightly taller block may give you a little bit of trouble depending which ancillary parts you intend to swap over from the 2.2 engine.

Also let me know when you're ready, and I'll help you with a solution on the tachometer.

Where did you pick up that new turbo? There was a shop which specializes in European cars in Canada that had one new a few years ago. I purchased a NOS 5-cyl 2.0 TD fuel injection pump from them a year or so ago.

Just one more bit of advice, put the heaviest flywheel you can get in there. The high compression diesel engines tend to beat the hell out of the lightweight pressure plates, and the gear chatter will drive you nuts! BTDT. How much are you asking for the old flywheel/clutch/PP?

Thanks for the input BlackBox I'd sure take your advice on the heavy duty connectors for the glow plugs. For the relay I will try to find one from an Eurovan so I'm sure it can handle 5 glow plugs. I don't know yet if the Eurovan's glow plug harness has the same glow plug connectors than the TDI... I'll work on this when the engine is in the car. I may go seek for the harness at the U-pull-it at the end of the day if I do enough in the garage and I'll try if the inner Eurovan's CV joints fits the rear 4000S shaft splines to convert to 108mm to fit the URQ diff I'm gonna use.

I found the turbo on the Kijiji ads and had it shipped by mail from Uxbridge, Ontario.

For the tachometer I planned to weld the distributor's crown to a plate which would bolt to the puller threads on the fuel pump pulley and true it with a dial gauge and then make a bracket to hold the pickup coil in front of it under the timing cover. There may be better solutions using the crankshaft sensor but I don't know electronics enough to convert the signal to what the 5 cylinder tach wants.

I'll keep both flywheels until I know which dish depht I need to have my clutch to work properly, but both weights about the same...

Friday and Sunday I've been able to do a substiantial amount of work. I've finished routing the positive battery cable under the carpet and through the firewall after I finallly removed the battery rack. I used a Prevost coach bus junction stud bolted through the firewall for the + and the engine ground is between RH engine bracket and the welded stud on the hydromount. Ah! and the engine brackets are on:


I removed the fan clutch... I first tried the right way, but it didn't work at all...so I tried a not so right way with torches and drilling on two faces of the hexagon...nope...didn't work neither... So I went to a totally improper way by splitting the clutch in halves with a die grinder and then I've been able to simply use a good'ole impact wrench when the clutch was all broken in pieces on the ground so it can't stop me to do what I got to do... Anyways I don't need the clutch and it was shot...


The idler pulley bearing was a little rough too (even before I get mad at the fan clutch) so I fabricated a special tool with the old fan clutch's hexagon by welding a 3/8-24 bolt on it and then screw it on my slide hammer and then with a little heat and some hitting the "flange shaft" was off. This is the "new style" one, meaning it's supposed to be ridiculously expensive for what it is, so I unpressed the flange and I'll try to buy this strange thing not at the stealership by using the INA number on it (f-217238 4)...we'll see... If it doesn't work I'll have an aluminium part machined to fill the hole and tapped in the middle (straight) to hold a cheap and serviceable stamped steel pulley. Here's a pic where we view the fan clutch's pulley flange shaft's INA part number


I also removed a sandwich style oil cooler on a scrap engine I have to install on the TDI. It is strange to me that this engine has no cooler at all so the sandwich will be better than nothing. When the cleaning was done I was ready to install it but I noticed that the interior of the cooler on the coolant side is all rotten, so I'll have to wait until I order a new one. At least I've tried it to see what the new filter clearance will look like (the filter is vertical on that bracket) and the result is that the filter is at the exact same height than the oil pan's lowest point, which is no good to go through snowbanks... So I wrote to Mahle to ask for the part # of a shorter filter with the same performance and features as the OC51 that was on the engine when I had it. Maybe someone on the forum could give advice on that...

Woohoo! I almost forgot to tell about the turbo. I mounted the turbo from the 5000td and the flange is the exact same as the stock k16 (rectangular with a rectangular hole) but the 5000td's turbo is definately a K24 because the CRHA is bigger and doesn't match the oil return pipe and since I have nothing in my parts collection to fabricate an proper oil return tube I'll leave the K16 on for now: it has the same wheels anyways. There's no bolt-on solutions for the return pipe as far as I know since there were no K24 on the tall blocks, so I'd have to lengthen the pipe of a gasser to make it fit the TDI. At least It gave me the opportunity to install a new gasket between the manifold and the turbo since there was none from the factory. The turbo shop sold me a T25 gasket on which I slightly slotted the holes to be able to slide it over the studs...interesting... It means that a T25 could be bolted to these manifolds quite easily. I also bought a flange to make the downpipe, interestingly these are the same flanges as on all the stock exhaust of the 4000Q.

One last thing, I had a custom power steering hose made to fit between the serpentile setup's pump and the rack since the 4000's hose has an elbow at the pump end so it doesn't fit. Probably some S6 hose would do but the hydraulic shop is just next to the turbo shop where I bought my gasket. For the succion hose I removed the barb on the pump and replaced it with the banjo bolt and hose from the 4000 so I think I'll can keep the old succion hose.

That's about all for now... I'm still waiting for my clutch disk and for confirmation from Sachs that my pressure plate fits the deep dish flywheel. I think the next thing I'll do is to wire the glow plugs light in the cluster and install the gauges in the center dash so...more to come...

I got news from Sachs Race Engineering today...not too good news... The 24.5mm deep flywheel from the 1T engine that I planned to use doesn't fit the SRE pressure plate I got, si I'll have to make the AAT flywheel to fit by cutting the pilot bearing housing on a lathe because it doesn't clear the splined hub on the 24 splines clutch disk. I measured everything and the only thing which didn't work were the pressure plate fingers which goes 6mm further towards the transmission, I had it adressed by switching the releaser fork to the cast style (it gives exactly 6mm more!) and since the clutch disk will be 6mm deeper on the gearbox's input shaft I had to check if the splines on the shaft were long enough for that and guess what? There's 6mm left with the 1T flywheel so it will be be just enough for the AAT flywheel. The release bearing guide clears too so I won't need a gearbox spacer and I'll be able to get everything adressed whitout buying more parts!!

I also called the Audi stealer today to know the price and availability of the fan clutch's pulley's flange shaft 046115136 and it's 380$/a business days so I'll have a machine shop make a part to fit the bearing housing/accessory bracket on which I'll can mount an ordinary serviceable pulley which has the same diameter as the stock pulley. I may have several parts machined and put a kit together if some are interested to get rid of their clutch fan and from that stupid flange shaft...

The rear diff must arrive by the end of the week so then I'll can see if the 100mm Iltis drive flanges can be used on it so I wait I have the diff in my hands...

BlackBox said:

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I'm all in favor of throwing out the electronics on these engines. Pure mechanical means it's that much more reliable. No MAF sensor, IAT sensor, MAP sensor, CEL, fuel temp sensor, injector lift sensor, drive-by-wire pedals, and ECU to go bad. Who did the conversion from electronic to mechanical on your pump? Do you mind if I ask how much it cost?

Where did you pick up that new turbo? There was a shop which specializes in European cars in Canada that had one new a few years ago. I purchased a NOS 5-cyl 2.0 TD fuel injection pump from them a year or so ago.

Click to expand...

hello it's me a french man, who make gravzzy pump with from parties of 4 different pomps without forgetting parties made to order.
i'm a idi et tdi spécialist ,particularly in rotary pomp ve and vp37





















































syl20

the 012141165E releaser is for the stamped steet fork (right one in the picture) and this setup's stroke is 6mm more towards the engine that the cast fork's setup


For example, if you have the stamped steel fork and you want to use a clutch kit which overall thickness is greater than yous stock one you can gain 6mm clearance by using the cast fork to avoid the clutch to be depressed all the time like it would've happened with the stamped steel fork.