motorgeek.com :: Socially inappropriate motoring information.
Search this topic:
motorgeek.com :: Board index :: The Tech Lounge :: General
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 168 posts ] Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next

Ben's V8 project

Author Message
 Post subject: Ben's V8 project
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:25 pm 
Offline
mach 2 with my hair on fire
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 1335
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Looking at a 93 4.2l V8 this weekend that is currently not running. Owner says it needs a cam sensor. Any easy fixes for this? Also, how best to diagnose?

I am bringing my vag-com with me to pull codes but I don't know if thatll show up.

Anything Else I should look for?

Thanks!
Ben

_________________
CURRENT
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed - 1995 90Q 20VT
- 1987 Porsche 924S - 1986 Audi Coupe GT

PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige - 2011 A4 Avant


Last edited by grillage on Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:28 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Audi v8 guys - looking at a 93 this weekend and have ?s
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:37 am 
Offline
mach 2 with my hair on fire
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:17 pm
Posts: 2530
Location: Farmington Hills, MI
I'm pretty sure they will run with a bad cam sensor. If they lose the crank sensor they don't start. Sensors are nearly identical and beside each other under the drivers side header. Plugs are up on top of the fire wall I think? It's a pita, but they can both be done by jacking the car with the LF wheel off. When I did them on my 91 they were about $75 each 10 years ago.

_________________
John Anderson
04 XC90
91 200 20V - not stock
01 S8 - stock
97 GMC Sonoma - 436rwhp
84 928S - 270rwhp
73 MGB


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Audi v8 guys - looking at a 93 this weekend and have ?s
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:31 am 
Offline
I post, therefore I am
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:32 pm
Posts: 7662
Location: Ma$$
Those sensors won't keep the car from starting.
Must b something else wrong. I would need more
Info
Though.......

_________________
Thanks
Ron
A 2.6l stroker motor without a roof
90 V8q 5spd mit 3.6 aka the convert
91 V8q 5spd mit 4.2 aka Black Betty
91 200 20vt Avant 22psi

90 200 Avant mit 3.6 V8 *sold/traded*
91 200 20V 22lbs aka the survivor *sold/traded*
90 V8q 3.6 not stock..Urs8 gone but not forgotten :-(


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Audi v8 guys - looking at a 93 this weekend and have ?s
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:36 am 
Offline
mach 2 with my hair on fire
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 1335
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Ronald G Wainwright+ wrote:
Those sensors won't keep the car from starting.
Must b something else wrong. I would need more
Info
Though.......


That's what I thought. I'm a little weary

thanks

_________________
CURRENT
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed - 1995 90Q 20VT
- 1987 Porsche 924S - 1986 Audi Coupe GT

PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige - 2011 A4 Avant


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Audi v8 guys - looking at a 93 this weekend and have ?s
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:50 am 
Offline
mach 2 with my hair on fire
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:17 pm
Posts: 2530
Location: Farmington Hills, MI
Crank will make it not run for sure.

_________________
John Anderson
04 XC90
91 200 20V - not stock
01 S8 - stock
97 GMC Sonoma - 436rwhp
84 928S - 270rwhp
73 MGB


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Audi v8 guys - looking at a 93 this weekend and have ?s
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:07 am 
Offline
mach 2 with my hair on fire
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 1335
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
123quattro wrote:
Crank will make it not run for sure.

Same sensor as 12v v6?

_________________
CURRENT
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed - 1995 90Q 20VT
- 1987 Porsche 924S - 1986 Audi Coupe GT

PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige - 2011 A4 Avant


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Audi v8 guys - looking at a 93 this weekend and have ?s
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:51 am 
Offline
I post, therefore I am
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:32 pm
Posts: 7662
Location: Ma$$
If the crank sensor is bad it'll cause a no start when it's hot. Once it cools the car will start..... Until the sensor gets hot again. Then once u turn the car off it won't start again.... Till it cools.
The rpm sensor will cause the car to stall while drivin cause it's not sensing a signal. But again once it cools it'll restart.

_________________
Thanks
Ron
A 2.6l stroker motor without a roof
90 V8q 5spd mit 3.6 aka the convert
91 V8q 5spd mit 4.2 aka Black Betty
91 200 20vt Avant 22psi

90 200 Avant mit 3.6 V8 *sold/traded*
91 200 20V 22lbs aka the survivor *sold/traded*
90 V8q 3.6 not stock..Urs8 gone but not forgotten :-(


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Audi v8 guys - looking at a 93 this weekend and have ?s
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:52 am 
Offline
I post, therefore I am
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:32 pm
Posts: 7662
Location: Ma$$
grillage wrote:
123quattro wrote:
Crank will make it not run for sure.

Same sensor as 12v v6?


No.
Sensors are the same as 5k's-200's.

_________________
Thanks
Ron
A 2.6l stroker motor without a roof
90 V8q 5spd mit 3.6 aka the convert
91 V8q 5spd mit 4.2 aka Black Betty
91 200 20vt Avant 22psi

90 200 Avant mit 3.6 V8 *sold/traded*
91 200 20V 22lbs aka the survivor *sold/traded*
90 V8q 3.6 not stock..Urs8 gone but not forgotten :-(


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Audi v8 guys - looking at a 93 this weekend and have ?s
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:22 am 
Offline
I sprinkle rubber on my Cherios
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:59 pm
Posts: 308
Location: Bellingham, WA,98225
Ronald G Wainwright+ wrote:
If the crank sensor is bad it'll cause a no start when it's hot. Once it cools the car will start..... Until the sensor gets hot again. Then once u turn the car off it won't start again.... Till it cools.
The rpm sensor will cause the car to stall while drivin cause it's not sensing a signal. But again once it cools it'll restart.

Hey Ron, while that's true of a failing sensor, if the reference sensor were dead, it's the same as a missing pin=ECU gets no signal=no start. Not sure why, but I've never personally had a reference sensor go bad, it's always been the RPM, but replace both while in there. I'm running the cheap $25 5000/200 ebay sensors in both cars now for years, and all is good. Grillage, the car not running allows you to pick it up cheap. As long as the timing belt didn't break/tranny's OK the rest is manageable. 2 of the 3 not running parts cars I bought had bad tranny's and was not told that, but for $300-$500, I got a bunch of nice parts. Buy it cheap and get it running....Tom


Attachments:
V8sensors.jpg
V8sensors.jpg [ 113.81 KiB | Viewed 4455 times ]

_________________
90 V8 Lago Blue 113K(nice)
93 V8 Pearl 205K(Sold)
91 V8 Indigo pearl 5-speed 165K(Love)
90 V8 Titan Grey 125K (parted)
91 V8 Indigo Pearl (parted)
91 V8 Panther Black 198K(sold)
90 V8 Panther Black 218K(sold)
04 Silverado 2500 HD 4x4(forever)
87 Silver Saab Turbo 205K(given away to friend for project)
4 other Saabs that I'm starting to miss.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Audi v8 guys - looking at a 93 this weekend and have ?s
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:33 pm 
Offline
mach 2 with my hair on fire
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 1335
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Tom, thanks for all the info - I am of a similar mind - the last thing I want to do is get it running and start negotiating price. I'd rather come to a price and then start trying to fix stuff. He's asking $1,500 but I won't pay near that. No one but one of us is going to buy a non-running 20 year old audi.
The only parts car I've ever bought was a similar situation. A non-running 94 Cabriolet. I got the engine running, replaced timing belt, bled coolant and then -thunk- no transmission. Damn thing wouldn't go in reverse. I ended up pulling the heads, the new timing belt kit and every sensor, wire, and remotely useful part for my other 94 Cabriolet and scrapping the shell for $300 cash.

If I can get the thing cheap I'll be okay.

_________________
CURRENT
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed - 1995 90Q 20VT
- 1987 Porsche 924S - 1986 Audi Coupe GT

PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige - 2011 A4 Avant


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Audi v8 guys - looking at a 93 this weekend and have ?s
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:23 pm 
Offline
mach 2 with my hair on fire
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 5:40 pm
Posts: 1775
Location: Waterbury,CT
Ronald G Wainwright+ wrote:
Those sensors won't keep the car from starting.
Must b something else wrong. I would need more
Info
Though.......


NEGATIVE ON THAT! Both will keep it from starting, if dead. If running, and crank sensor fails, it will continue to run using signal from the pass side hall sensor in the distributor, at full retard. If the engine speed sensor fails while running, car will die.

_________________
Allan

'90 3.6 V8 Quattro auto
'91 4.2 V8 5-speed
'99 A6 Quattro Avant
'00 F250 SUPERDUTY (the workhorse)

"are you kidding me? that is the sickest v8 i have ever seen. So damn gorgeous."......Dana


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Audi v8 guys - looking at a 93 this weekend and have ?s
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:24 pm 
Offline
mach 2 with my hair on fire
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 1335
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Looks like I'm picking it up! I'll post pics tomorrow. Not a beauty queen but it is lower mileage (127k) and cheap!

_________________
CURRENT
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed - 1995 90Q 20VT
- 1987 Porsche 924S - 1986 Audi Coupe GT

PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige - 2011 A4 Avant


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Audi v8 guys - looking at a 93 this weekend and have ?s
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:15 pm 
Offline
I post, therefore I am
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:32 pm
Posts: 7662
Location: Ma$$
Ok so when this kid gets the car we'll c.

_________________
Thanks
Ron
A 2.6l stroker motor without a roof
90 V8q 5spd mit 3.6 aka the convert
91 V8q 5spd mit 4.2 aka Black Betty
91 200 20vt Avant 22psi

90 200 Avant mit 3.6 V8 *sold/traded*
91 200 20V 22lbs aka the survivor *sold/traded*
90 V8q 3.6 not stock..Urs8 gone but not forgotten :-(


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Audi v8 guys - looking at a 93 this weekend and have ?s
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:01 pm 
Offline
mach 2 with my hair on fire
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 1335
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Ronald G Wainwright+ wrote:
Ok so when this kid gets the car we'll c.


I'm a kid? Cool!

_________________
CURRENT
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed - 1995 90Q 20VT
- 1987 Porsche 924S - 1986 Audi Coupe GT

PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige - 2011 A4 Avant


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Audi v8 guys - looking at a 93 this weekend and have ?s
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:01 pm 
Offline
I sprinkle rubber on my Cherios
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:59 pm
Posts: 308
Location: Bellingham, WA,98225
Ronald G Wainwright+ wrote:
Ok so when this kid gets the car we'll c.

Can I be a kid tooooo.

_________________
90 V8 Lago Blue 113K(nice)
93 V8 Pearl 205K(Sold)
91 V8 Indigo pearl 5-speed 165K(Love)
90 V8 Titan Grey 125K (parted)
91 V8 Indigo Pearl (parted)
91 V8 Panther Black 198K(sold)
90 V8 Panther Black 218K(sold)
04 Silverado 2500 HD 4x4(forever)
87 Silver Saab Turbo 205K(given away to friend for project)
4 other Saabs that I'm starting to miss.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Audi v8 guys - looking at a 93 this weekend and have ?s
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:53 pm 
Offline
kickin' tires'n lightin fires
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:29 pm
Posts: 675
Location: Somewhere between VT and MD
toml99 wrote:
Ronald G Wainwright+ wrote:
Ok so when this kid gets the car we'll c.

Can I be a kid tooooo.

Me three! I too want to be subtly demeaned based on my perceived age, makes me feel young again.

_________________
-Shawn C.
2002 B6 A4 3.0l->1.8t+Southbend+VEMS+Rods+HX35=happy daily
1987 5ktq most reliable $500 I've ever spent
1989 200tq Avant- Gone but not forgotten
1986 GTI- longterm project
And one brindle pup in the back


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Audi v8 guys - looking at a 93 this weekend and have ?s
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:18 am 
Offline
I post, therefore I am
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:32 pm
Posts: 7662
Location: Ma$$
::Oprah voice:: Every1's a kid! Ur a kid, ur a kid. & ur a kid..... Get the idea!

_________________
Thanks
Ron
A 2.6l stroker motor without a roof
90 V8q 5spd mit 3.6 aka the convert
91 V8q 5spd mit 4.2 aka Black Betty
91 200 20vt Avant 22psi

90 200 Avant mit 3.6 V8 *sold/traded*
91 200 20V 22lbs aka the survivor *sold/traded*
90 V8q 3.6 not stock..Urs8 gone but not forgotten :-(


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Audi v8 guys - looking at a 93 this weekend and have ?s
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:49 am 
Offline
I post, therefore I am
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:42 pm
Posts: 3973
Location: Lost Angels, Ca
grillage wrote:
Ronald G Wainwright+ wrote:
Ok so when this kid gets the car we'll c.


I'm a kid? Cool!


Well done Ben! I always wanted a clean 92 or 94 V8

_________________
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Picked up a V8 yesterday!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:31 am 
Offline
mach 2 with my hair on fire
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 1335
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Well here are some pics....

The fleet...
Image

The subject...
Image
Image
Image
Image
Damage to both front corners...
Image
Image

The engine needs some work for sure. Lots of oil coming from the DS head - hopefully just a valve cover issue.
Image
Image
PO put the rag on the radiator hose to keep it from rubbing on the fan
Image

The goal here is to get the engine running and decide then whether to fix the rest of the stuff. The engine could end up in my cabriolet long term if all is well.

The bad with the car as it sits now is...

The interior is not great. The seats are both ripped and they smoked heavily inside the car.
The passenger side door has been taken apart and not put back together well. It doesn't open from the outside and the window doesn't work.
Battery is dead from sitting
The front end damage is a big turn off. Short of finding another PS fender there's not a lot I can do.
Hood struts and trunk struts both toast. (See wood holding hood open)
Bald front tires.
Missing the chrome "8" from "V8"
The car will not start. Cranks but no turning over.
PO said it died mid drive to work. He claims to have had someone confirm there was not spark but I have not tested myself yet.
I was thinking (as the conversation above was) that the crank position sensor was bad. I hooked up my vag-com to the car and was able to see a crank position fault when it wasn't started yet but it went away after I would crank and fail to start the car. That seems to rule this out.
What's the easiest way to test the fuel pump? Are these common failure items?

_________________
CURRENT
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed - 1995 90Q 20VT
- 1987 Porsche 924S - 1986 Audi Coupe GT

PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige - 2011 A4 Avant


Last edited by grillage on Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Picked up a V8 yesterday!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:36 am 
Offline
I post, therefore I am
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:23 am
Posts: 4947
Location: Meriden, CT
Looks like someone did a really bad job installing the air filter... lol j/k.

nice pickup, she needs some work, but not many 20+ year old audis do not.

_________________
XLR8
Image
2003 540i/6 M-Tech #1090/1265 Spring/Summer/Fall
1991 200 20v Winter/Utility - MRC tune, Bilsteins, powerflex


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Picked up a V8 yesterday!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:39 am 
Offline
I post, therefore I am
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:32 pm
Posts: 7662
Location: Ma$$
I'm sorry to say I TOLD U ALL SO!!!
Maybe one if the above geniuses can continue with the diagnosis theory's for u! Lol.....

But I will ask, when cranking does the tach jump?
& there are tests to c if the pump works or not...... But if the cars really got 127k on it IMO that's a little early for the pump to fail.

_________________
Thanks
Ron
A 2.6l stroker motor without a roof
90 V8q 5spd mit 3.6 aka the convert
91 V8q 5spd mit 4.2 aka Black Betty
91 200 20vt Avant 22psi

90 200 Avant mit 3.6 V8 *sold/traded*
91 200 20V 22lbs aka the survivor *sold/traded*
90 V8q 3.6 not stock..Urs8 gone but not forgotten :-(


Last edited by Ronald G Wainwright+ on Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Picked up a V8 yesterday!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:46 am 
Offline
I sprinkle rubber on my Cherios
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:19 am
Posts: 462
The fuel pump can be tested by removing the relay and shorting the contacts. But no, the fuel pump is not a common failure point.

If you decide to part out the chassis, please PM me in the future. I have the same car as you :)

_________________
87 4k, 90 f350, 91 v8, 93 v8, 04 s4


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Picked up a V8 yesterday!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:22 am 
Offline
mach 2 with my hair on fire
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 1335
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Thanks guys. I'll check the tach here in a minute. I edited my above post. The PO said it did NOT have spark. I typed that wrong before. I'm fogging to go out and run a few tests in a few. Unfortunately the battery is dead so I have to jump from my s6. It makes hearing a fuel pump not easy. I was able to confirm that the fuel pump fuse is good though

_________________
CURRENT
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed - 1995 90Q 20VT
- 1987 Porsche 924S - 1986 Audi Coupe GT

PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige - 2011 A4 Avant


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Picked up a V8 yesterday!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:42 am 
Offline
mach 2 with my hair on fire
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 1335
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Tachometer pulses when I try to start. Never gets very high but does jump a little.

_________________
CURRENT
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed - 1995 90Q 20VT
- 1987 Porsche 924S - 1986 Audi Coupe GT

PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige - 2011 A4 Avant


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Picked up a V8 yesterday!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:46 pm 
Offline
mach 2 with my hair on fire
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 1335
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
I just verified that there is indeed spark!

That leaves timing or fuel

_________________
CURRENT
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed - 1995 90Q 20VT
- 1987 Porsche 924S - 1986 Audi Coupe GT

PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige - 2011 A4 Avant


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 168 posts ] Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next
Search this topic:
motorgeek.com :: Board index :: The Tech Lounge :: General

Jump to:  



Information

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests



You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
  |  It is currently Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:13 am
Share |