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Tom's 5000 Turbo Diesel Quattro

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 Post subject: Tom's 5000 Turbo Diesel Quattro
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:18 pm 
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I sprinkle rubber on my Cherios

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Location: Little Falls, MN
I've been planning this for a few years, I don't know if will even end in success, but I started tonight. Last year I put together a 5 cyl turbo diesel engine with parts from 10 sources around the country and put it in a 1980 5000 that originally had a NA. Oil consumption was never great the best was about 1 qt. to 500 miles. Then it got worse I even had the turbo rebuilt, but 1 qt. to 100 miles was too much. I am now pulling this engine out to install new rings, and then I plan to put it in a 1986 5000 turbo Quattro I bought last week on eBay with a bad engine for $200. In a perfect world this might take about 2 months. I'll post some pictures when I figure out how to. I know there aren't a lot of diesel heads on this forum, but my goal is to have a 5000 Quattro that gets more that 35 mpg with fair performance.

Tom


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:22 pm 
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sounds interesting, its a nice change to see some stuff on diesels. I look foward to seeing more on this project. so keep us up to date and good luck. i cant wait to see what you come up with.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:23 pm 
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Cool idea Tom, keep us updated. What sorts of things are needed to convert a gas car to diesel, as far as pumps and lines and stuff?

Sam

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:56 pm 
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I sprinkle rubber on my Cherios

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I don't think it will be too complicated as far as lines and wiring. I'll try leaving the fuel pump in the tank and just pulling the fuel pump relay so hopefully the fuel gauge will work and I won't get a dash warning. I think the existing fuel line and return are large enough. I'll cut the metal fuel lines somewhere in the engine compartment and splice in rubber lines. The diesel's fuel filter is mounted on an engine support. I will have to use the multifunction temp switch and the coolant port out of the head of the gasser for the radiator fan to work properly. I will just plug the coolant line to the turbo because the diesels' turbo isn't water cooled. I will try to use the gassers IM so it will be easier to plumb into the intercooler. I just have to wire up a glow plug relay, there are only about 3 wires on it that I have to figure the use for. I'm not sure about the clutch, I hope the gassers clutch and flywheel will fit. They're a little heavier duty.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:04 pm 
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Hello, Im new around here. Longtime Lurker.

I have thought about making a TD Quattro also. Does the Audi TD bolt up to the 016?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:30 pm 
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My boss converted his Volvo gasser wagon to a diesel, and he left the fuel pump in the tank, but had to keep it functional (the vacuum wouldn't pull through the pump). BTW, the Volvo TD 6cyl is an Audi/VW motor, even has the 4 rings on the valve cover. I'd like to see someone get on of those in a 5000 chassis, I think it would fit without the IC in the front.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:51 pm 
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Location: Norway...Golf Mk1 4x4 16vt
I have my own TDI quattro project. I put in 2,5 TDI 1T engine to Audi 100 (200 20V look) 2,2t MC Avant quattro ('88). This is very simple project. Just plug and play. Engine fits ideally, electric wiring fits without no cut and solder - connecting connectors only. The original gear-box is too short. 1T has max hp on 4250 rpm, and it is about 180 km/h. And later it is nothing... But car is very dynamic. Fuel consumption is about 6-8l. 10,5l when it pulls 1,6t trailer.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:04 pm 
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Pulled the diesel engine out of the type 43 last week and started disassembling it for rebuild. I think I found the source of the excess oil consumption. It seems someone (supposedly a professional re-builder) put standard rings on oversize pistons. The end gap was between 2 and 3 mm, and there was one cracked ring. I've ordered a new set of rings, but couldn't get the size I wanted in gap-less total seal with a stainless top ring.
I started tearing out the engine in the quattro, I'm glad I don't plan to make it run again. There are a lot of signs of poor quality work on this one. I will have a lot more spare parts for my other quattro though. Even a spare fuel pump relay if Jeff needs one at the ice runs this winter.

If 2.5 liter turbo diesels were readily available here like the are in Poland I would have tried using one for this project too.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:45 pm 
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Tom, trust Motorgeek when Motorgeek says, you don't want total seal rings. Ask audifreakjim.

Sam

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:23 pm 
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I planned on scrapping the radiator on the donor car and replace it with a new one or one with metal end caps, then I took a good look at the diesel radiator. It already has metal ends, and it fit into the bracket on the 86 Quattro. I just had to modify the fan shroud from the Quattro so that it would fit over the tubing since the diesel's radiator is 2" shorter. I'll try to set the secondary radiator from the diesel in front of the AC condenser, or just run some heater hose between the two front ports of the diesel radiator.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:57 pm 
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:pics:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:52 pm 
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I sprinkle rubber on my Cherios

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Now that I've dug into the engine compartment deeper, it looks like I have to replace the steering rack. No big surprise since i found an empty can of Pentosin in the trunk.


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 Post subject: Pentosin Hydro Oil
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:31 am 
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What's the big difference, between Pentosin and red ATF fluid? Certainly seems like the red ATF is not as heavy of a fluid. This would contribute to a heavier wheel, but at the risk of a seal blowing out on the power steering ? I will always opt for red ATF, especially on a icy morning say 0 degrees that is about how cool it gets around here in the sticks, but in the upper mid-west you will need to throw an extra log on the fire just to keep the fluids moving...?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:18 pm 
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I sprinkle rubber on my Cherios

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I'm still waiting for my new parts for rebuilding the engine, but a got a little more of the needed work done on the quattro. i found a good used rack cheap and got that installed, but in the process I found a bad tie rod end. I have a pair of new ones ordered. I also put on a new slave cylinder as long as everything is so easily accessible, and I ordered a new custom made slave cylinder hose. I tore the diesel head down so that can get new valve guides. If anyone needs parts of a 10v turbo, let me know. I'll try to sell the head and exhaust manifold on Ebay. I'll keep the turbo for a spare for my gas car, and the rest I'll haul to the scrap metal dealer. Anyone who wants the scrap stuff can have it.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:42 pm 
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2 hints


the rad fan isnt controlled by the multi function sensor, thats only for the engine management computer and the gauge on the dash. the rad fan is controlled by the thermoswitch on the radiator.

i would keep the fuelpump functional, or entirely eliminate it from the tank. im betting it would be a huge restriction when off and really make it hard for the deisel pump to pull the fuel from the tank.

other then that, is this a stock rebuild or are you going to make it a performance deisel? ie bigger turbo, ported heads, and an injector pump recailibration?

would be cool to see some deisel performance stuff in here... i really think thats gonna be the way to go in the next 5 -10 years for cheap daily driving performance.

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Audi, imprisoning me, all that i see, absolute horror. I cannot live, i cannot die, trapped in my audi, my audi my holding cell..

1988 Audi 5ktq - 10vt Ms&s Extra <- sold then someone killed it.
1993 Audi 90q - 12vt


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:02 pm 
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I sprinkle rubber on my Cherios

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Thanks for the hints. I'm thinking the same thing about the fuel pump, and I just figured out the only thing I need from the multi function switch is the temp gage connection. I may try to increase boost beyond 10 psi, but only after installing egt gage. There is a guy in Canada that can rebuild the pump to optimize performance, but he charges about $900, so it will be a while before i do that. The website I check for that kind of thing is www.vwdiesel.net


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:16 pm 
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I sprinkle rubber on my Cherios

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I'm making slow progress. I honed out the cylinders and slipped in the pistons with the correct rings. I had the flywheel from the Quattro refaced and bolted up a new clutch and pressure plate to the diesel. It fit onto the transmission just fine. After I got it set in there, I found out the con rod bolts are stretch types so they shouldn't be reused. I'll leave the engine on the mounts while I redo each piston. It isn't that hard if the sub-frame bolts aren't rusted in. I also remeasured the piston out of deck clearance and realized that I needed the thicker headgasket. I'm still waiting for new valve guides, so this week I'll bleed the clutch get the new tie rod ends on, install the radiator,AC, and alternator. Hopefully the local VW dealer can get the rod bolts I need.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:55 pm 
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I sprinkle rubber on my Cherios

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Image This is what the 86 Quattro with the bad engine looked like when I purchased it. Image Taking the diesel engine out of the old type 43. Notice the 2 1/2 exhaust on floor.ImageGas engine out.ImageLower 1/2 of diesel in.Image I'm going to try to mount the auxiliary radiator in front of AC condenser


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:31 pm 
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looking great. i cant wait to hear that it is on the road. Two words of friendly advice, one since this will basically be the only car in the USA like this id go ahead and take the time now to detail the engine bay while you have everything apart. (it can be a show stopper :wink: )
two if you need any help on the AC system get in touch with me. I have first hand experience with the system on that car (i have rebuilt it and done a R-134A conversion).

Three you now have diesel power, and that means torque and there was a tendency with the 20vt and V8 to have the metal from the fire wall and strut tower to tare apart. this can be solved with a strut tower brace which is an easy fix b/c there are a few options.

keep up the great work. cant wait to see the finished product. :bump:

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88 5KTQ "White Widow"
95.5 S6 Avant NOW the *SRS* RIP
03 S8 Exclusive package


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:50 pm 
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I sprinkle rubber on my Cherios

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I'll try to clean up the engine compartment a little better for sure. As far as AC goes, I've been using a propane based refrigerant for a few years, It lets me recharge without having to vacuum any air out first. It's only $4 a can.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:11 pm 
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what ever the coolant maybe, a smart thing to do is to replace the receiver drier and the compressor. a good rebuilt compressor can be had for $200 shipped off of ebay. that where i got mine from and i have not had a problem yet.

also there are all kinds of tips to gain some HP and just make that 5ktq a better car. here are a few easy ones ill give you while you have the car apart.
wrap the down pipe
200 euro headlights (they can be sourced, your in the right place to get a set)
as i said before for your case, strut tower brace
use silicon for fuel lines, they last longer in the case of diesel (gives you the option for bio-diesel later on)
check every last inch of wire while it is still easy to get to, you will thank me later.
and now is also a good time (since you will be detailing the engine bay) to clean up any rust spots, and rust proof and paint

don't hold back an questions you may have. it may just be the difference of $10 or $1000

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http://www.justfourrings.com

88 5KTQ "White Widow"
95.5 S6 Avant NOW the *SRS* RIP
03 S8 Exclusive package


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:58 pm 
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I sprinkle rubber on my Cherios

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What do you use to clean up the rust spots, and what do you use for rust proof paint that matches the car's color? Where is a good place to get the silicon fuel lines? I bought Euro lights for my gas Quattro off of German Ebay. I'm thinking of using Euro lights for a non turbo and changing grilles. Ebay sells these lights a lot cheaper than 200 turbo lights.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:14 pm 
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ok with the 100 euro lights off of ebay. two things to be careful of. first you need to check with Paul Fernandes (owner of Custom Auto Craft aka CAC) he know which is the correct one to buy since there are a few options on ebay. second see if it comes with the white/ clear corners. its preferred since you may have a "match up" problem latter. wiring them up, to just mention it quick, run heavier wire and high wattage bulbs (its worth it, that how im running it now, check my project page for details).

rust: heavy wire brush, various grades of sand paper (depending on what the rust is like), mask so you dont breath that crap in, rust proffer; well i prefer brush on but use spray if its your only option, paint; well you have two options; have some made to match exact or cheat and by a can of the closet match.

silicon fuel lines. well what it really is, is silicon tubing that you would get at lowes or home depot. make sure it has a pressure rating printed on it and that it matches or excieds OE spec.

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http://www.justfourrings.com

88 5KTQ "White Widow"
95.5 S6 Avant NOW the *SRS* RIP
03 S8 Exclusive package


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:18 pm 
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also google bio- diesel coversions. they should talk about silicon fuel lines in more detail.

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88 5KTQ "White Widow"
95.5 S6 Avant NOW the *SRS* RIP
03 S8 Exclusive package


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:53 pm 
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I sprinkle rubber on my Cherios

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I'm finding more problems as I go along. I took the head in to have some valve guides replaced, and the machinist found a bent intake valve. I have one on order, and I'm still waiting for a head gasket. To pass the time I wired up the glow plug relay, and got the rear tail lights and blinkers working. And just like a teenager would I hooked up some amplifiers, new speakers and a CD player. Now I can sit behind the steering wheel of a car with no engine and listen to my favorite tunes with great high power sound.


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