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Another 4000 20v Project - Fulfilling that dream
https://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=219131		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Linksvu [ Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Another 4000 20v Project - Fulfilling that dream
I will be joining the 20v ranks by finally being able to build something I have wanted for almost 20 years now - a wonderfully running, beautiful turbo'd 4000 Quattro. I'll spare the story and give the highlights: found my third-time-a-charm 4000 last month in NH ('87 Quattro, Alpine White, script interior, potential 'special build', 79k on odo [not believed] but solid and very clean) and then a less-than-stellar '91 200 20v donor the same week. Pictures are attached.

As I finish my project plan, I am starting the build thread with two things: 1) project intent; and 2) the current build sheet, open for opinions. Overall, I am building this as if Audi built a UrQ sedan, if you will. Here is what I'm after:

Project Intent
    - Reliable and durable w/ near OEM quality and look
    - All functionally retained, except a/c (initially)
    - Smooth, early power delivery - city driven, will never be tracked
    - Targeting high-200hp with ability for high-300s upon turbo and ECU upgrades
    - Built so motor is only pulled again if needing to be rebuilt

With that in mind, below is my current build sheet. The notes within ( ) is the planned source while anything with '?' are items I am still researching or debating. I have not completed my review of all the MG or Project Pad threads on similar builds yet, so, any of you been-there-done-that experts, please chime in. I will be updating this post as we move along, hoping it will become a solid reference for any others following this path. This will not be a fast build, as I want it done well.

Block / head / cooling / accessories
    Have block checked for warpage (Area Auto Machine)
    - Have it dipped cleaned?
    - Replace freeze plugs?
    Have cylinders checked for out-of-round and taper
    Replace/upgrade rods (EFI or 034)
    - w/ rod bearings
    Reuse pistons if good
    - OEM replace if needed
    Polish and balance crank
    - w/ main bearings
    - w/ new seal
    - w/ new crank bolt?
    Replace oil pump
    Hot tank oil pan?
    Balance 3b flywheel (local)
    Rebuild head (Area Auto Machine)
    - ARP bolts
    - New MLS gasket (034)
    - Only replace valve hardware if needed
    - Port/polish?
    7a exhaust cam (used)
    Stock 3b intake cam or AAN intake cam if going AAN CPS (used)
    Replace timing belt
    - w/ hardened timing belt gear (EFI)
    Replace 4k motor mounts (034)
    - w/ new snub mount (034)
    Refresh radiator (or replace w/ 2b?)
    Replace thermostat w/ full coolant flush
    Replace/upgrade coolant hoses
    - w/ shorter coolant flange (EFI)
    Use 4000 stock accessories
    - Need power steering adapter brackets to use the 4k pump
    - replace water pump
    Stock 3b oil cooler?

Turbo / intake / exhaust
Stay with stock k24 turbo (initially)
- Replace any hoses?
- Replace/upgrade turbo oil lines? (034)
- w/ feed & drain line gaskets
Do anything to wastegate?
- Replace wastegate diaphragm (034)
- w/gasket
Exhaust manifold - Rs2 evo (EFI)
- w/ replaced shorter exhaust studs (034)
Full 3" exhaust back (custom)
- Or dual?
Stock 3b intake, should handle hp
- w/ new filter
Stock UrQ intercooler as core for APIKOL UrQ upgraded
- sits low and will require minor trimming
Upgrade MAF?

EFI / ECU / fuel management
Convert to AAN coils (EFI)
- New plugs
AAN or 3b ECU?
- Potentially go VEMS plug n play/standalone down the road
What injectors?
- Clean and balance any used
Bosch 044 fuel pump
- How to wire?
- How to connect fuel lines?
Adjustable FPR (034)
Replace fuel filters
Changes to fuel rail or lines?
- All new fuel lines?
Run hall sender or cam position sensor?
- Machine head if factory CPS w/bracket

Tranny
Stick with 016 trans
- Locked center & rear setup (initially)
- Maybe go to torsen rear later
- Maybe 01e down the road
Replace trans mounts (034)
Replace throw out bearing (034)
Rebuild shifter linkage
Rebuild syncro while out?
Southbend? 3b clutch
Replace shifter bushings
Replace brake rack while motor is out?

Suspension / brakes
Replace front coils due to added weight of 3b?
Subframe bushings (034)
Rear diff mount (034)
Replace Struts?
- w/ strut mounts (034)
Front sway bar bushings, all (034)
Front sway bar (4 cylinder, fwd 4k bar?)
Rear sway bar (2b or front 4kq)
Shock tower brace (wiechers-sport.de)

Attachments:
File comment: Here she is
PXL_20201020_002706115.jpg
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File comment: In the stable
PXL_20201109_155333303.jpg
PXL_20201109_155333303.jpg [ 2.36 MiB | Viewed 938 times ]
File comment: The two shall become one
PXL_20201019_220825707.jpg
PXL_20201019_220825707.jpg [ 6.2 MiB | Viewed 938 times ]
Author:  realcustoms [ Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another 4000 20v Project - Fulfilling that dream
Set the engine control immediately to Vems or something similar
Custom clutch with basket from s8 or rs4b7 or 3.0tdi
016 gearbox is very short and it is not convenient, better 01e
the torsen in the rear gearbox does not have a very large effect
Author:  Linksvu [ Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another 4000 20v Project - Fulfilling that dream
Appreciate it!

I haven't read about basket from an s8 or b7. What does that provide?

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
Author:  varia [ Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another 4000 20v Project - Fulfilling that dream
"Targeting high-200hp with ability for high-300s upon turbo and ECU upgrades"

for this HP level, you dont have to rebuild/upgrade the engine.
for AAN/vems on 3B, you will have to figure out the CPS
for 200, the stock urq intercooler is good (border line) anything above its need to be upgraded (limited space)
and Bosch 044 fuel pump is internal.


before you do anything, just read this forum, everything is here
Author:  Linksvu [ Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another 4000 20v Project - Fulfilling that dream
varia wrote:
"Targeting high-200hp with ability for high-300s upon turbo and ECU upgrades"

for this HP level, you dont have to rebuild/upgrade the engine.
for AAN/vems on 3B, you will have to figure out the CPS
for 200, the stock urq intercooler is good (border line) anything above its need to be upgraded (limited space)
and Bosch 044 fuel pump is internal.


before you do anything, just read this forum, everything is here


Appreciate it. My interest to re-build is part of my enjoyment of the project. I'd be fine to just swap it over but knowing how long I want to keep this, I will enjoy rebuilding it to ensure it last as long as possible.
Author:  kompressorgolf [ Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another 4000 20v Project - Fulfilling that dream
I honestly love the way the 016 feels behind my AAN in my 4000, its a bit short on the highway yes, but around town and up to 70, its most enjoyable. I have the 01E ready to rock in the event i kill it, but im happy with it now. All your plans seem pretty in line with mine, i stayed with AAN motronic (stock ecu) and feel for what you want it will be maintenance and trouble free. and either 3B or AAN harness are very easy to integrate to 4000. one of the easiest swaps ive ever done as far as wiring was concerned.


Image
Author:  Linksvu [ Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another 4000 20v Project - Fulfilling that dream
kompressorgolf wrote:
I honestly love the way the 016 feels behind my AAN in my 4000, its a bit short on the highway yes, but around town and up to 70, its most enjoyable. I have the 01E ready to rock in the event i kill it, but im happy with it now. All your plans seem pretty in line with mine, i stayed with AAN motronic (stock ecu) and feel for what you want it will be maintenance and trouble free. and either 3B or AAN harness are very easy to integrate to 4000. one of the easiest swaps ive ever done as far as wiring was concerned.


Image
So awesome! And thank you - your message is very encouraging! Your FB post a few months ago was actually one of the sparks for me to finally pursue this. I think you have a great build!

I may ask you some questions as I get deeper into this, if you're willing.
Author:  Linksvu [ Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another 4000 20v Project - Fulfilling that dream
No major updates so far. I've been working on a deal to exchange my donor 200 for an already pulled 3b, which sounds like it'll work out this week. This should keep a 200 on the road but still get me a 3b.

Question: what all do I need from a 200 from a swap? I know the full motor with all manifolds and connections and lines; flywheel; ECU; harness. Anything else??

I want to be sure I have everything in the exchange.
Author:  Linksvu [ Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another 4000 20v Project - Fulfilling that dream
Was finally able to get the motor - great to see this and have it on hand now! I should begin tearing it down over the holidays. So far my parts-on-hand are: the complete long-block and 7a cams. I still need to get the flexplate, 3b harness and ECU, downpipe, and a starter, in addition to the long list of items to procure in the first post.

Question: Is there anything else I need from a 3b donor?

Attachments:
File comment: 'the motor
PXL_20201218_002522326.jpg
PXL_20201218_002522326.jpg [ 1.83 MiB | Viewed 513 times ]
Author:  Linksvu [ Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another 4000 20v Project - Fulfilling that dream
Finally opened up the 7a cams which were shipped.

Do these look correct? I never got to see the motor they came from. I will have it polished before it goes in.Image[img]false[/img]
Author:  realcustoms [ Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another 4000 20v Project - Fulfilling that dream
Normal, but on the stock turbine there is little point in them
Author:  jbrentd [ Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another 4000 20v Project - Fulfilling that dream
Nice project! I am in the middle of swapping a stock 3B and harness into my small chassis (CQ) as well.

Linksvu wrote:
Question: Is there anything else I need from a 3b donor?


Did you get the 3B intake plumbing (manifold and hard pipe)?

Also, if you want to have AC, you'll need to figure out a different way to route the turbo oil return to the block (assuming the compressor sits on the passenger side of the engine in the 4k).
Author:  kompressorgolf [ Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another 4000 20v Project - Fulfilling that dream
I dont log on super often, but feel free to ask anything anytime!
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