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87 4k aan swap

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 Post subject: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:39 pm 
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So finally getting around to starting my swap on my 87 4000cs quattro, I've been lurking on the forums for a few years now originally with the intents on a 10v turbo setup with a 5000 parts car I had, but while waiting around driving my 4k into the ground a deal popped up on a aan long block and it was good timing so I'm kind of starting over with that route. This will be my first big project, luckily these swaps have been well documented hence why I've been lurking, that being said hopefully I dont ask to many newb questions. I'm hoping progress will be steady as the car needs. Bit of work in all departments but my budget is fairly tight so we will see.

I'm planning to keep the motor all stock and just get the head freshened up, I'll be running a stock turbo, for engine management I'm planning on going vems, whenever I talk about this swap that's what people tend to tell me over anything else, luckily I have friends that are a lot better at wiring than me cause that's definitely the part I'm most concerned about getting by.

Other than that I'll be just starting with pulling the old motor and cleaning up the engine bay, replace some hard to get to parts and maybe do some painting. Probably going to be going solid front subframe bushings, but I do want to street the car so havent decided on that yet.

I dont know how long ago the odometer stopped working but it doesnt look to bad for 260k if I had to guess.ImageImageImageImageImageImage

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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:18 am 
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Sweet, car looks great! I'd stick with the OEM ECU if you aren't going big turbo in the future, it works really well and is cheaper/easier.

Good luck and thanks for posting.


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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:17 pm 
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ringbearer wrote:
Sweet, car looks great! I'd stick with the OEM ECU if you aren't going big turbo in the future, it works really well and is cheaper/easier.

Good luck and thanks for posting.
Thanks! I do plan on building another engine and going big turbo once I get the car going stock power but I want to get this thing on the road.

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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:23 am 
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That's a good looking 4kq! I agree on sticking with the OE ecu if staying stock turbo. If you're certain you will go big turbo in the future though then starting with VEMS isn't a bad choice. Looking forward to the swap


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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:06 am 
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zephyrj wrote:
That's a good looking 4kq! I agree on sticking with the OE ecu if staying stock turbo. If you're certain you will go big turbo in the future though then starting with VEMS isn't a bad choice. Looking forward to the swap
I'll look more into that, I did notice vems has a direct swap for a OE aan setup so swapping to vems later on would be super easy.

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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:15 am 
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What’re you doing for clutch??

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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:15 pm 
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blackghost wrote:
What’re you doing for clutch??
Southbend 3b clutch, havent decided what series I'm going to get yet but probably just the stage 1 street.

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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:17 pm 
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I’m gonna reach out to southbend. I need to make a purchase rather soon!!

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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:32 pm 
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Same here I'll probably order clutch and flywheel this next month if everything goes to plan, need to sell my 10v stuff to help fund this project

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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:40 pm 
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I need to install my motor within the next few weeks.

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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:48 pm 
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blackghost wrote:
I need to install my motor within the next few weeks.
My goal is next few months but we will see about that, still havent pulled the jt yet.

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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:14 pm 
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Anyone have a good write up on a A/C delete on aan? Need to get going on all the accessories.

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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:19 am 
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Are you going to run the serpentine belt system?

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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:36 am 
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I have some thoughts for you, I'll try not to make it too long.

I have run it all different ways, Serpentine belt with AC delete was probably my favorite setup. V-belt is whats in my urq.
You said you got a long block. Any brackets with it? Crank pulley?
If you run the AAN crank pulley youll need both brackets and the belt tensioner, the brackets for the accessories will all fit and you can use your lower pressure power steering pump and swap the v-belt pulley on to it. It will work with AAN intake manifold of course , but the manifold modified to make space for the radiator and the radiator was at a tilt (or can run a smaller honda one). You should be able to use a belt from NAPA (NAPA part number 25060509).

Regarding the wiring there are a few ways to go.
If you want the cleanest possible setup get a custom harness from EFI express and a VEMS econoseal.
If you want to keep costs down, and have access to a good condition urs4/urs6 engine harness, splice in the stock AAN wiring harness. It can be done without too much hassle in a b2 and I can find some diagrams if you need. It does have some extra stuff on it that you wont use in the engine bay and but it has enough length you can run the wires through the hole where the AC was and tuck the extra up behind the glovebox. You will then have the Motronic 55 Pin plug so that you can run the stock AAN ECU or VEMS .... Or run motronic and then at a later date swap to VEMS if you want as EFI express sells the PnP VEMS ECU.

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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:35 pm 
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Afterthought wrote:
I have some thoughts for you, I'll try not to make it too long.

I have run it all different ways, Serpentine belt with AC delete was probably my favorite setup. V-belt is whats in my urq.
You said you got a long block. Any brackets with it? Crank pulley?
If you run the AAN crank pulley youll need both brackets and the belt tensioner, the brackets for the accessories will all fit and you can use your lower pressure power steering pump and swap the v-belt pulley on to it. It will work with AAN intake manifold of course , but the manifold modified to make space for the radiator and the radiator was at a tilt (or can run a smaller honda one). You should be able to use a belt from NAPA (NAPA part number 25060509).

Regarding the wiring there are a few ways to go.
If you want the cleanest possible setup get a custom harness from EFI express and a VEMS econoseal.
If you want to keep costs down, and have access to a good condition urs4/urs6 engine harness, splice in the stock AAN wiring harness. It can be done without too much hassle in a b2 and I can find some diagrams if you need. It does have some extra stuff on it that you wont use in the engine bay and but it has enough length you can run the wires through the hole where the AC was and tuck the extra up behind the glovebox. You will then have the Motronic 55 Pin plug so that you can run the stock AAN ECU or VEMS .... Or run motronic and then at a later date swap to VEMS if you want as EFI express sells the PnP VEMS ECU.
At the moment this is what I have for accessories and brackets on my long block (pic below), I'm missing the crank pulley and belt tensioner, and unfortunately some of the hardware for mounting what I do have. Also that's just the stock urs4 power steering pump on there and I've heard the a6 one is the one I need? That's also just a old 5000 water pump sitting in there, so with needing a crank pulley and tensioner which route would you say you like more? When it comes to the rad situation I read up on the snow camo 4000 with the aan where he got a vr6 front mount rad in there which I really like the idea of that, I'm considering having my buddy to a partial tube front end to make a lot of that hassle go away.

As far as the wiring goes, I've been seeing pretty good deals on aan harnesses, though they've probably sold or will by the time I'm getting to wiring, I would love to just have a clean slate with the wiring cause theres quite a few gremlins, so a complete harness is what I'd love to get but we'll see where my budget is.

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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:41 pm 
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You are missing a head...

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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:00 am 
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If I had the serpentine stuff, I would probably stick with with that - but that’s just me . I like serp. because It’s a sweet setup and gives you a little more room on the lower front area of the engine . Belt is super easy to change , everything stays fixed in the brackets and if you need to work on the front of the engine it is real easy to move the belt out of the way.

The v belt pulley sticks out quite a bit further toward the core support so the serpentine belt gives you overall more space but if you plan to do a front mount radiator it might not give you the space . This is because although the crank pulley is shorter you will fill some of the space above it , it’s not pictured in your photo but look at how the belt tensioner fits in the AAN and you will see it does take up some of that space .
On my URQ I wanted that space up high for my intercooler so I did V belt setup and even with no belt tensioner there it was still close .
I’m not saying it can’t be done but it’s tight and I kind of like having the radiator on the side myself .

For the power steering pump the stock UrS pump puts up higher pressure than what a 4K rack needs so I have swapped the pulley and used the 4K pump for mine . I think it says 75 bar on the nameplate

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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:55 am 
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Afterthought wrote:

For the power steering pump the stock UrS pump puts up higher pressure than what a 4K rack needs so I have swapped the pulley and used the 4K pump for mine . I think it says 75 bar on the nameplate


I would love to see pics of your PS PUMP with pulley swap.

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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:45 am 
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If the engine is out you are better off changing the rack to a 90 or cq. The later racks are 100bar.


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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:45 am 
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Afterthought wrote:
If I had the serpentine stuff, I would probably stick with with that - but that’s just me . I like serp. because It’s a sweet setup and gives you a little more room on the lower front area of the engine . Belt is super easy to change , everything stays fixed in the brackets and if you need to work on the front of the engine it is real easy to move the belt out of the way.

The v belt pulley sticks out quite a bit further toward the core support so the serpentine belt gives you overall more space but if you plan to do a front mount radiator it might not give you the space . This is because although the crank pulley is shorter you will fill some of the space above it , it’s not pictured in your photo but look at how the belt tensioner fits in the AAN and you will see it does take up some of that space .
On my URQ I wanted that space up high for my intercooler so I did V belt setup and even with no belt tensioner there it was still close .
I’m not saying it can’t be done but it’s tight and I kind of like having the radiator on the side myself .

For the power steering pump the stock UrS pump puts up higher pressure than what a 4K rack needs so I have swapped the pulley and used the 4K pump for mine . I think it says 75 bar on the nameplate
Thanks for the quick and thorough responses, definitely spelling it out nicely, with what you said I'm definitely just gonna go the serp route, hopefully I'll be picking up a crank pulley tensioner and a new water pump, for the power steering you just used the stock low pressure 4k pump with a aan pulley?

As for the head not being on yet, waiting on a head gasket and head studs right now.

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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:55 am 
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quattrofan wrote:
If the engine is out you are better off changing the rack to a 90 or cq. The later racks are 100bar.
Is the rack from a 90 a bolt in? cause that sounds like it would be the easiest route

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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:02 pm 
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MtnmanMitch wrote:
quattrofan wrote:
If the engine is out you are better off changing the rack to a 90 or cq. The later racks are 100bar.
Is the rack from a 90 a bolt in? cause that sounds like it would be the easiest route

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Almost 99% positive. I was going to put a cq rack in my urq. would post the question up. I'm sure you will get a definate answer.


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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:17 pm 
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I guess I don’t understand why a different PS rack is needed if you have 4000 stuff already but maybe I’m missing something.
When I swapped my urq the only reason I needed to change the rack and pump was because I went to vac boost on the brakes. I took the stock rack out , and put a 4000 booster, power steering rack and pump in. I did this because the power steering rack out of a car thats equipped with hydro boost (b3 90/cq) has extra fittings on it that you don’t need to use for vac boost so you end up having to tie the supply and return together .

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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:29 pm 
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MtnmanMitch wrote:

for the power steering you just used the stock low pressure 4k pump with a aan pulley?

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I’ve done this a couple different ways but it’s been years , like I sold the last car I did with serpentine belt setup in like 2015.
From looking at my notes the last time I did it and it was basically bolt in without any fab I used the pump I had laying around from a 1995 90 Quattro V6. It fit into the AAN bracket without any issue. I’m pretty sure the pulley can be swapped too , but I’m not remembering for sure if the 4000 pump fits in the AAN bracket as I ended up making my own brackets last time .
When I get done with work in few days I will see if I can find any of the stuff in my shop

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 Post subject: Re: 87 4k aan swap
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:01 pm 
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Afterthought wrote:
MtnmanMitch wrote:

for the power steering you just used the stock low pressure 4k pump with a aan pulley?

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I’ve done this a couple different ways but it’s been years , like I sold the last car I did with serpentine belt setup in like 2015.
From looking at my notes the last time I did it and it was basically bolt in without any fab I used the pump I had laying around from a 1995 90 Quattro V6. It fit into the AAN bracket without any issue. I’m pretty sure the pulley can be swapped too , but I’m not remembering for sure if the 4000 pump fits in the AAN bracket as I ended up making my own brackets last time .
When I get done with work in few days I will see if I can find any of the stuff in my shop


Yes, u can use the v6 pump since it is the same mounting as the later pumps vs the older 4k style. However you are still using a 100bar pump on a 75bar rack. People have done this and not blow seals. I rather err on the side of pre aution and not deal with replacing a rack once the engine is in the car. I would update the rack as well. I'm sure you can also use a cq pump as well. I would of done this for my urq except that I had a rebuilt stock rack, several 4k pumps and the iroz pump bracket.


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