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3b conversion coupe - Almost finished

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 Post subject: 3b conversion coupe - Almost finished
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:23 pm 
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After a couple days of piecing this project together and gathering info along the way, I have come up with a few questions that maybe someone can help me with.

1. Ersatz s2 website says to grab the altitude sensor from underneath the rear seat...the bently says it's in the a-pillar trim by the driver's side footwell. Can someone clarify this for me? I grabbed what I thought was an altitude sensor from the foot well (had one 8mm nut securing it to a bracket held in place with two phillips head screws), but I could be wrong. Are there multiple ones? Anyone have a picture?

2. Cooling system plumbing still baffles me a bit. Somehow I hope to use a CQ rad, with 200 temperature sensor, 200 fan motor, CQ fan shroud, no secondary rad, aux coolant pump (a la 200--unless I can delete it?), CQ hoses to the heater core (looks like I may have to use the right side one from the 200 because of the way it bends at the block),
... anyone have a diagram of how they set theirs up? Any parts needed that don't come with a 200 or a coupe?

Oh yeah just to clarify the project is your standard 90 CQ with 3b motor

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.


Last edited by Dr.Strangelove on Tue May 14, 2013 8:13 am, edited 17 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:35 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:05 pm 
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Gotcha! for a minute there i was a little confused. don't worry i drink water :)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:55 pm 
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Quote:
1. Ersatz s2 website says to grab the altitude sensor from underneath the rear seat...the bently says it's in the a-pillar trim by the driver's side footwell. Can someone clarify this for me? I grabbed what I thought was an altitude sensor from the foot well (had one 8mm nut securing it to a bracket held in place with two phillips head screws), but I could be wrong. Are there multiple ones? Anyone have a picture?

I remember removing the sensor from the driver side footwell of a 200 20V.

Quote:
2. Cooling system plumbing still baffles me a bit. Somehow I hope to use a CQ rad, with 200 temperature sensor, 200 fan motor, CQ fan shroud, no secondary rad, aux coolant pump (a la 200--unless I can delete it?), CQ hoses to the heater core (looks like I may have to use the right side one from the 200 because of the way it bends at the block),
... anyone have a diagram of how they set theirs up? Any parts needed that don't come with a 200 or a coupe?

I use the radiator from 4000 Q. There are two connections at the top side of the 4000 radiator. One of them (big one) will be connected to your water manifold, the other (small one) is connected to expansion tank. The lower connection of the radiator will be connected to the engine block where the water pump is located. 4000 radiator will mount without any problem. You can get a steel radiator from 034motorsports for 290.80 dollars. You will need the lower hose of the 4000 radiator as well.

I hope this will help. Let me know if this is clear if not I can send you a picture of my set up.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:11 am 
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Is there any way of using a CQ rad? I just bought a brand new one--recieved it yesterday. What's the difference between a rad from a cq and one from a 4k? Do you have any pics of your set-up?

Can the 7a piece of pipe that houses the thermostat replace the one from the 3b motor in order to resolve the problem of acquiring a 4k lower rad hose, or are there other issues?

did you keep the auxiliary water pump?

i think i need to find my ETKA cd for diagrams sooner rather than later. it would be handy to have diagrams of the CQ, 200, and 4000 cooling systems. If i find some i'll post them. It might help the discussion

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:39 am 
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Also, could someone tell me whether the spline on the clutch alignment tool is the same for a 7a and 3b? I guess what i'm asking is for which car do i need the alignment tool; the coupe or the 200; or are they the same?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:37 am 
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Should be the same.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:49 am 
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Quote:
Is there any way of using a CQ rad? I just bought a brand new one--recieved it yesterday. What's the difference between a rad from a cq and one from a 4k? Do you have any pics of your set-up?


I will take pics of my cooling setup and post it tonight.


Regarding the tranny parts, they are the same. I recommend getting an aluminum flywheel. The engine will rev up much faster and it is definitely a gain to torque due to lighter rotating assembly.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:24 am 
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Alignment tool--good to know!

Pics of your setup--would be great

Im on a tight deadline and a tight budget right now. But once everything is plumbed, wired-up and working properly, I don't mind separating the motor to change the flywheel and maybe upgrade the clutch when I have a bit more cash to spend. Right now I just want to get everything working together so that I can start using the car again.

I wish the 200 cross member was a direct replacement for the coupe. It would make fitting the intercoolermuch easier. I think I will just cut the bracket on the CQ crossmember that supports the second rad, bring the tabs in closer together, as per the mounts on the intercooler cross pipe and maybe extend the tabs rearward to clear the intercooler and allow better fitment of the bumper later on. ...just thinking out loud. Any thoughts to this?

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 Post subject: Re: 3b conversion coupe
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:29 am 
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Dr.Strangelove wrote:
2. Cooling system plumbing still baffles me a bit. Somehow I hope to use a CQ rad, with 200 temperature sensor, 200 fan motor, CQ fan shroud, no secondary rad, aux coolant pump (a la 200--unless I can delete it?), CQ hoses to the heater core (looks like I may have to use the right side one from the 200 because of the way it bends at the block),
... anyone have a diagram of how they set theirs up? Any parts needed that don't come with a 200 or a coupe?


If you use the 200 fan motor, you cannot use the CQ shroud, you need to source an RS2 fan shroud from 034 or any Worldpac distributor (like a local mechanic or speed shop). That's $80-ish.

I was able to reuse both heater core hoses from my CQ.

I would not recommend deleting the turbo coolant pump, but you can wire it in to the existing after run circuit in your coupe. Get the wiring manual if you don't already have it.

If you use the 200's fan, you will need to rewire it to bypass the Coupe's fuse box. At full blast, the thing pulls over 40 amps, while the existing fuse is only rated at 30 amps. There's an active thread about this topic as of a day ago.

Hope that helps!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:00 am 
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I think I will try to use the CQ fan then. i will review the wiring this evening. Thank you for the info.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:24 am 
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Just to make reference to the above mentioned post, I believe it is this one you are refering to:

https://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/viewtop ... t=rad++fan

At any rate it is very helpful.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:54 pm 
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Here is my cooling setup. I mainly use parts from 4000Q. I eliminated the turbo coolant pump but I recommend you keep it, that way you minimize the chance of "cooking" at your turbocharger.

The radiator is from 4000Q. The upper big hose that connects to coolant manifold is from Audi 90. I have replaced the manifold at the thermostat with the one from 4000Q and use the 4000Q lower hose at lower side of the radiator. It is not shown in the pics but there is another hose at the lower back side of the radiator that connects to expansion tank lower end. I have also taken the fan thermoswitch from the Audi 90 radiator and used that one at the 4000Q radiator. There is a hard tube line that is connected to the heat exchanger which is replaced with the one from the Audi 90 since I eliminated the turbocharger coolant pump.

You do not need the auxiliary radiator.

Here is the problem with the CQ or Audi 90 radiators. Since you do not need the auxiliary radiator, the connection for the CQ or Audi 90 radiator should be plugged.

Click on the pictures to enlarge them.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:05 pm 
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You will need to use the 7a clutch and alignment tool. The 200 clutch does not work, the input shaft is totally different. The 200 pilot baring will also need to be removed, use the 7a, as they in different places. You'll figure it out when your in there. I just went through this part. Pulled the cherry pic off yesterday. This was the method for an early coup, 3b to o1a. WorldPac S U X !!! look for SSF from San Fran (wholesale supplier)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:28 pm 
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Many folks say not to use the aux.rad. Why not??? more coolant would keep it kooler... no??? if the A\C is out it can be mounted in front of the rad. Isn't the "kool guy" rad. a larger capacity? and isn't that a good thing for the track? so why not the cheap (er) rout?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:43 pm 
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Quote:
Many folks say not to use the aux.rad. Why not??? more coolant would keep it kooler... no??? if the A\C is out it can be mounted in front of the rad. Isn't the "kool guy" rad. a larger capacity? and isn't that a good thing for the track? so why not the cheap (er) rout?


Of course more coolant is better if you need. My car is my daily driver and single radiator works just fine for me. It has never overheated.

You can get an aluminum heavy duty rad. from 034 even for better cooling. For my daily driver this would be an overkill because I don't race. If you do not need it why install heavy duty rad or an additional aux rad? I got my 4000Q rad for 45 bucks from the junkyard and sell my 7A rad for 60 bucks.

Regarding the tranny parts, if the 3b is installed to a coupe, 01A parts shall be used. 016 flywheel doesn’t work well with an 01A, its spaced too far back towards the motor, you want to use an 01A parts with an 01A transmission.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:11 am 
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Much thanks to both of you--a huge help! I will post some progress as soon as i can.

:cheers:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:48 am 
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Still in the process of taking the old motor out. I decided to take the header out to free up some room to loosen the bolts holding the tranny to the motor. Ended up taking the intake manifold off to get the nuts on the top part of the exaust manifold, and taking the subframe down. But, there still isn't much room back there for any tools.

I wanted to leave the tranny in, but it looks like it might be coming out. Other than the squeezes everything looks pretty clean other than a broken swaybar link i just discovered. Those metal links are garbage!

Intercooler:

I was thinking I could use the tabs on the crossmember that hold the secondary rad if I just spaced them out a bit, but thinking about it they may not be long enough to allow the intercooler itself to clear the crossmember. and if they were long enough, it might push the intercooler back too far towards the motor. Anyone try this?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:57 am 
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Is this what you are talking about?

Image

There's not much room left over:

Image

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:07 am 
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hmmm...

yeah, that's what i'm talkin' about

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:57 am 
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Well I cut out a piece of the battery tray to get better access to the bolts that mate the engine to the tranny; got all of the bolts out; ready to pull out the motor and the cherry picker stops lifting before it could put any tension on the chain. I guess the last couple of people I lent it too managed to lose some hydraulic oil out of the thing and never bothered to replace it.

Also, while I was examining the 3b I noticed one of the oil cooler lines got pinched. I guess that's what I deserve for leaving it plugged in.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:42 am 
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After a bit of hydraulic oil, the motor came out without a hitch. I have since swapped over the motor support brackets and removed both clutchs' and flywheels from the 7a and 3b (need alignment tool and flywheel bolts before reassembly).

After examining the condition of the remaining components in the engine bay, I noticed a series of power steering hoses that are in serious need of replacing. One of the hoses looks to be attached to the steering column or is at least in a position that appears to require me to remove the rack in order to access it.

In light of this discovery, I decided to clean up my garage and get things in order before disassembling the interior and removing the 7a harness.

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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 4:29 pm 
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is it possible to open fan casing??


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File comment: Seems as though the fan connector got fubared (probably the reason why my fan only worked intermitantly)
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 4:38 pm 
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I've got a few spare fans if you need one.

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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:03 am 
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Well, I'll keep you posted. I know the fan still works, but I have to ensure that there is no risk of the contacts that you see in the picture grounding on the fan casing.

I also have a 200 fan that I might use, depending on whether I can figure out a way to affix it to my radiator via some sort of fan shroud or fan shroud-like concoction.

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