Automobiles Forum banner
Cancel
Create thread New Garage Forums

rwd bell housing. vw/audi to t5 transmission.

Jump to Latest
1 - 20 of 148 Posts
V

vw16vcabby

· Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion starter · #1 ·
Figured you guys would be interested in this over here.

i am in the process of getting an sfi steel bellhousing made to mate a ford t5 tranny up to vw/audi engines so you may go 100% rwd. Aaron (speeding-g60) has been gracious enough to help me along in getting this done. As he has donated the block and the bell housing to get sent to the shop building the bell.

it will be a complete bell housing--not an adapter plate--
Image


The company doing the work is quicktime performance products http://www.quicktimeinc.com

here is what they were sent---

at first, i had sent them an 020 vw tranny case for the bolt pattern. seeing how that is fwd, i could imagine how much of a cluster fuck it may be for them to work with. At the same time, Aaron and i were posting about rwd shit over on vwsport. basically brainstorming between the two of us go us this far. the following stuff was sent as a result to help quicktime out in building these bell hosuings--

complete end of an engine (last cylinder/crank cut off)

Image


early 90 audi 90 tranny bell hosuing---

Image


stock vw flexplate so they have diameter dimensions of the clutch setup so they know to stay within spec to fit inside the bell

Here is what we need help with

i need to tap into all of you audi nuts data bank to know exactly what all the stock audi 90 tranny bolts up to. as you see in the above bell housing pic-- the ones that were marked in white fit 4cylinder. the lines in red fit v6. Now what about v8? inline 5? Does the later model v8 bolt pattern differ from early? same thing goes for v6 engines.

In addition, it is my understanding this will fit vr6 provided you use the oem adapter plate. correct?

basically i/we need to figure out what all will fit. the reason we chose to use the audi 90 bell bolt pattern was simply because it is transverse nature coupled with its multi bolt pattern. if we can get one bell made that fits a shit ton of engines--everyone wins. company only has to make one bell for our cars, and we get a bell that fits everything.

As for when these will be ready to go-- Ross from quicktime has said once he gets everything in his shop, "4-5 weeks if it is straight forward and we have all of the information necessary. Possibly faster if it is straight forward."

being the last of the items are shipping out now, i think it is safe to assume he will not get on the work until after the holiday/1st of the year. pricing i would think is going to be similiar to their domestic offerings.

thanks for the help

Mike
 
#2 ·
Interesting project. Just bolted up a Quicktime bellhousing the other night for a Ford project...extremely high-quality pieces.

How do you plan to adapt the output shaft to VAG products?

Bentley manuals should have drawings of the bolt patterns and bolt sizes for each hole location. I've got the 4kq manual as well as the 90q manual if you need me to shoot some photos.

-Dave
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#3 ·
The audi engines (I5, v6 and v8) have the same bolt pattern for the most part. I think auto v8 oil pans differ a little at the bottom but it all works together. Basically, if you get one made with the 90s bellhousing pattern almost all VAG engines will bolt up. Vr6 will need the adapter plate unless you somehow incorporate that too.
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
dave,

be 100% truthful, im not certain what all i will have to go through there to make it work. Im more or less going one step at a time. the clutch though i dont think will be an issue, just a matter of mixing and matching until we know what fits what

im my head, i see no reason why a stock or say a vw/audi intended pressure plate or flywheel can not be used.

obvious is a clutch disc would need to be made for the ford spline. that is no issue really as i feel any clutch company can make this disc. Kennedy engineering comes to mind. basically need the same diameter clutch w/ just the ford or whatever t5 tranny spline you have.

Pilot bearing wise--again- may have to machine something here. Cant comment for certain without having it in front of me. For what it is worth, the ford 4 cylinder t5 has a .590 diameter whereas v8's had a .668 diameter input shaft. I need to mic audi shafts to see what they are. off top of my head 016's i seem to recall were 20mm, or roughly .78 inches. If anything, may have to adapt a ford bearing installed in a bronze sleeve that gets pressed into stock flywheel type of deal. Im sure there has to be a pilot out there though that would fit. just a matter of cross referencing it. hell, if an aftermarket flywheel is being cut, i dont see why they cant make the center a slightly smaller diameter to accept the t5 pilot as opposed to the audi.

as far as releasing the clutch-- i foresee the use a hydraulic throwout bearing to do away w/ the release fork/slave cylinder. I dont know if quicktime will make the bell to incorporate the oem clutch slave or not. Personally, i would rather run a hydraulic throwout bearing.

again, im not going to bullshit you guys. im not 100% certain what all it is going to take to get the clutch side up and going. that's going to be an after the fact deal. I imagine if i drop an email over to kennedy they may be able to shed some insight on this by tapping into all their adapter plate and clutch discs knowledge that they have. Maybe even get them to make a clutch kit to work for this setup(s)

mike
 
#5 ·
May I make a suggestion?

Don't limit yourself to Ford. The GM bellhousing pattern is basically the universal aftermarket transmission pattern in North America.

The Ford T5 pattern fits... Ford T5s. Everything Ford used before the T5 was different, and they didn't use anything after.

The GM pattern fits basically everything they ever made from the 60s to the last of the removable bellhousings in, what, the 90s? Sure, the Ford pattern allows you to tap into the Fox-body aftermarket. The Chevy pattern allows you to tap into drag, road race, and circle track, where four-speeds based off of the T10 architecture are plentiful to say the least.

I've mentioned it in passing before, but I've picked up a steel Mopar LA to Chevy bellhousing with the intention of making a one-off Audi bellhousing.

Of course, it would not be terribly difficult to have a dual pattern bellhousing, either. Any place that has dealt iwth bellhousings at all would know what is involved with doing that.

Other thoughts:

Clutch disks are really trivial, just order from a good aftermarket company and order your X application disk with a Y hub instead. Mazda guys do this all the time when they mix and match transmissions.

Don't bother with adapting anything for the four-cylinder transmissions. A modded Audi engine will make it its bitch. They're okay for their intended applications but for anything making more torque, you really want to look into something with a 3.35 or 2.95 first gear, which will have the higher torque rating. (Basically, this is V8 transmissions) Aftermarket drop-ins are universally for the V8s.

Egads yes, central hydraulic unit. Although, if that proves to be too expensive, an aftermarket external device can also be arranged. Probably will prove to be a wash when all is said and done. I have a new-in-box Jeep hydraulic throwout that I've been hoarding for quite a long time, just for this purpose :)
 
#6 ·
man those are quality looking parts up there ;)

and for the record, its a 5 speed 01E trans from 92 UrS4..... but the same bolt patterns...
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#7 ·
Good suggestions, Pete. I hope they are taken to heart.

Depending on price, I may be tempted to buy one and 3B swap the XR4. Would I be losing the 2.3 Ford engine that was actually the reason for the original XR4 purchase? Yes. At least I make my changes in the planning stage--most of the time.

Would this adapter keep original engine angle or stand it up straight?

If nothing else is possible for the pilot bearing, one could always be machined from oilite bronze. Just be good about shifting to neutral and letting out the clutch in traffic/at lights.
 
#9 ·
I just recently started toying with a similar idea for my CQ.

LS or 302 ford (lighter than the Al LS series), 5or6 speed, and a Cobra IRS
 
#10 ·
Don't bother with adapting anything for the four-cylinder transmissions. A modded Audi engine will make it its bitch. They're okay for their intended applications but for anything making more torque, you really want to look into something with a 3.35 or 2.95 first gear, which will have the higher torque rating. (Basically, this is V8 transmissions) Aftermarket drop-ins are universally for the V8s.
Click to expand...
2.3L T5 does have the first/second as a weak point, but rebuild kits are available to bring them up to 5.0L toughness. You still have to deal with the different input shaft spline count, but all the major clutch manufacturers have listings.

Image


We're currently swapping a T5 into a Mustang two (originally an autobox)...these Quicktime bellhousings are awesome quality and fitment. The T5 uses a splined output shaft though, so I think you're going to need to do some cut and welding to adapt one into a VAG product.

-Dave
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
Discussion starter · #11 ·
the t5 tranny is more or less a drag race standard tranny. you can find them all over the place for relatively cheap as well as they are easy to build. Once quicktime has the bell dimensions, it would not be that hard for them to make a bell to fit say a Gm t56 6 speed. This would be a world class t5 too. So that covers all the t5's made by ford/chevy etc . You would have great aftermarket support too. Although i agree, would be nice to have a gm option too. Yet i think the physical size of the t56 would be limiting factor.

as for engine angle, would be same as oem. the bell is not getting rotated or anything. so engine angle will stay the same.

drive shaft wise, likely end up w/ a 1 piece drive shaft made by a local drive line shop. they are usually around 200 for a steel shaft, 400 range for aluminum. take them the stock ford output flange and the audi carrier flange and have them make one from scratch x distance.

thanks for input so far. as i find out more word, i will let you guys know.
 
#13 ·
what do the T5's go to for revs? and they have great shifter characteristics, unlike the ass VW stuff we/i am used to?
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#14 ·
The early V8's have the crank sensors sticking out which interferes with the trans bellhousing, substantial material needs to be removed from the bell housing to accommodate the sensors. V6's bolt pattern also differs slightly from the early V8, IIRC the ABZ and later V8 engines share the V6 bolt pattern. The I5 bolt pattern lacks one dowel that is present on the V6.
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#15 ·
speeding-g60 said:
what do the T5's go to for revs? and they have great shifter characteristics, unlike the ass VW stuff we/i am used to?
Click to expand...
VW transmission shift awesome compared to T5s. They're not awful, mind you, but big gears take more effort to move and speed up/slow down, and the engines they were mated to never really revved very high, even the 4-cylinders.

On the other hand, you can get a dogbox gearset for something ridiculously cheap like $1200.
 
#16 ·
ugh. if its worse than an 02A that sucks majorly.

but a cheap dogbox gearset sounds like it would make up for that.
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
Discussion starter · #18 ·
only issue i can think of w/ t5's (atleast mustang ones) is when guys bang gears and overextend the shift forks. There is no positive stop in stock shifters. So it is possible if you hammer gears and say are going from 2 to 3, you can damage stuff. usually though everyone put an aftermarket shifter on to solve this.

i wouldnt say shifting a t5 is any worse than an 02a or any able shift vw for that matter. granted, i dont drive a mustang daily or anything. yet i been around my fair share of them and didint notice anything different/odd. there are cars in my area on stock trannys into the 10's. they may not last the longest, but seem to last long enough all things considered. the nitrous cars w/ sticky tires are the ones who seem to kill the trannys. It is like they dead hook and strip shit. Yet if you are going 10's or quicker, what is a grand-1500 to make your tranny hold more power consistently? It is more or less a drop in the bucket at that point. Hell, we spend that much on fwd axles hoping not to break still! Now all the high 11 low 12 second cars seem to never have any problems. they are daily driver solid.

building them up though is the gem--as already mentioned there is a plethora of aftermarket stuff for them. Christ, their is companies who own their entire existence to building t5 trannys-- tremec and gforce come to mind. A bunch of the locals run NMRA in heads up classes, not to mention laurel mtn mustang is down the road from me. So im sure those guys would help me out in finding stuff. as it is, i can probably swing a built up used box for dirt cheap. Although the holy grail version would be a dog box or sequential unit :) all im trying to do is build a fun rwd car. not looking to win races this time out.

right now, if everything goes as planned--if quicktime mimics the factory bell bolt pattern of the audi 90 then you know it will fit any engine that will bolt to the stock 90 trans. Thus, if you know it works but without a dowel pin or something, im sure you can get creative to make it work.
 
1 - 20 of 148 Posts
About this Discussion
147 Replies
44 Participants
Last post:
r_adesigns
Automobiles Forum
posts
750K
members
25K
Since
2003
A forum community dedicated to all Automotive owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about performance, modifications, engine swaps, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
Chit Chat Swap meet General Engines Brakes