So, although I havent gone down this road yet personally, I thought it may be beneficial for all those out there that have, are going to, put bigger brakes on the front of their b3/b4 car, to have all of the information in one large thread. So, let's hear it from those whom have done it...front, rear whatever. What was used parts wise, what it can be sourced from, pics if possible, etc. One massive big brake kit thread to end all big brake kit threads.
zerb
4x108 -> 5x112
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4404209
obviously 034 has some solutions
http://www.034motorsport.com/chassis-co ... 7_106.html
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthrea ... &styleid=8
post#11
UrS4 front hubs (machined to fit by me)
b5 A4 rear hubs
Brembo 4 piston calipers from a Porsche 997 C2 (striped and painted red, Quattro script added)
Porsche motorsport front pads
Porsche caliper
b5 S4 rear calipers (also striped, painted, Quattro script added)
mk2 gti rear pads (new OEM VW, had them laying around; many vw/audi applications use this same pad profile)
Euro S8 slotted 323x30mm rotors (imported)
b7 S4 rear rotors
034 Motorsport b5 to b7 S4 rear caliper brackets
replica RS2 front caliper brackets (machined by me w/ modified dims. to eliminate need for shimming; cost ~$4 in material)
new wheel bearings (germanautoparts.com)
stainless brake lines (034)
3mm spacer between the front rotor and hub (H&R)
**with stock e-brake cable routing the cable is just a little too short, so a minor re-routing at the subframe is required. After doing that it works perfectly and lines up very well.
------------------------------------------------------------
b7 s4 rear brakes on b5q rear hubs :: So presuming you punch in a B5q rear hub, use a B5 S4 rotor, and use B5 S4 rear brake caliper & carrier, it'll all match & fit together. And the OE carrier has the same spacing on the bolt holes, so that's why it'll work on your knuckle.
**one could replace the B5 S4 256x20mm setup with the 300x22mm rear disc setup from a 2007 B7 S4
http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2129199
http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22558
STaSIS 298mm x 22mm
http://www.audiworld.com/tech/wheel56.shtml
-------------------------------------------------------
Many diff OEM possibilities
http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthread.php?1572831
-----------------------------------------------------------
Hybrid_Hatch Front upgrade for COUPE:
996 monobloc calipers, s8 rotors, rs2 caliper carriers
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26984&start=800
-----------------------------------------------------------------
COUPE:
http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread ... 98&page=10
The final configuration for the S2 Coupe (NOT Avant or Sedan) is as follows.
300x22mm rear disc from neu S4 - part number = 8E0 615 601R (2-off)
Diameter reduced to 280mm - no other mods to disc - cost 20 quid for machineman
280x22 carrier from the S8 - part number = 4D0 615 425C (2-off)
Rear caliper from UrS6 - same as RR quattro - part number to follow
This caliper has a bigger piston than the S2 item. Topology is perfect.
S8 pads for those 280mm discs - part number = 1J0 698 451L
The pads are sited perfectly on the disc surface by the carrier. No overhang.
4 x 50mm long caliper carrier bolts - part number = N101 815 02
Shortened to 35mm. The 30mm original bolts are too short cos of carrier spacers.
12 x M10 washers approx 1.25mm thick
Arranged three deep for a ~4mm spacing to centre the S8 carrier over the disc
These are a bit fiddly to fit cos they get sandwiched between hub and carrier - a properly made spacer bracket would be more elegant and easy but its no biggie.
To complete the transition I renewed the hydraulic lines to the caliper - same as S2 hose along with new spring clip for the union bracket. Part numbers below:
S2 Coupe rear hose = 893 611 775 (2-off)
Union clip for hose = 4D0 611 715B (2-off)
Fitment to one side of the car is complete - bad light stopped play ! My rear discs are now bigger than my fronts until I get the 996 monos fitted with A8 323x30 discs but thats another entirely more easy story. This exercise is just to get me thru MOT - then I'll get to the front anchors
This disc reduction to 280mm was only necessary on the Coupe cos of the handbrake routing to the caliper - the UrS6/RR caliper is a perfect fit on the Coupe application.
On an Avant/Sedan, you can run with the 8E0 disc at full size of 300x22 using the corresponding carrier, caliper and pads - not cheap but a mighty upgrade for the Avant/Sedan and the handbrake combination of that 8E0 caliper works on the Avant/Sedan.
Parts list for the Avant/Sedan conversion is as follows -
Disc = 8E0 615 601R (2-off)
Carrier = 8E0 615 425B (2-off)
Caliper = 8E0 615 423C and 424C
Pads = 4B3 698 451
Hoses = 8E0 611 775H (2-off)
Carrier bolts = To be added (normal S2 avant/sedan items as no spacer required)
Sorry it all took so long - it has been an expensive process at times, but the 8E0 calipers, carriers and pads will go to a good Avant running home.
The total price of everything for my vented rear disc conversion on the S2 Coupe from S4/S6/S8 parts isn't as lairy as you might think. Most expensive item is the S8 carriers as you'll not find them in a breaker easily. The discs are cheap. The pads aren't expensive and I paid about 100 quid for two good calipers of a 1997 S6 from a breaker.
Paul
PS - Note that whilst its not necessary to change your handbrake cable for this conversion you might decide to do at this time just to refresh everything on the rear brakes. If you do, then note the following :
Coupe handbrake cables are different each side - 893 609 721E and 893 609 722E
The Coupe handbrake fits the S6/RR caliper with spring clip 857 609 745A (2-off)
The Avant/Sedan handbrake is same each side = 8A0 609 721AD (2-off)
A different retaining clip is required for that on the 8E0 caliper = 171 611 819 (2-off)
And finally - heres the brake caliper part numbers applicable to 8E0 upgrade on the Coupe....
447 615 423 and 447 615 424
You'll find that for an AAN equipped UrS4/S6 from 08/91 thru 07/97 or the AEC equipped (4.2 V8) UrS6 from 09/94 thru 10/97.
I notice there is a part number 447 698 661X listed for this which gets you both reco'd calipers and new pads. This is listed for the UrS4/S6 above and also the RR engined quattro of 1990/1991 vintage. List price from Audi UK is a frightening one approx £600 before VAT, but you don't need to pay that !
Key here is the side pull handbrake mechanism needed for the Coupe.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Rear 300mm parts list is:
Calipers:
8E0 615 423 C (silver)
8E0 615 424 C (silver)
or
8E0 615 423 J (black)
8E0 615 424 J (black)
Carrier:
8E0 615 425 B (silver)
or
8E0 615 425 E (black)
Disc:
8E0 615 601 R
Pads:
4B3 698 451 A
---------------------------------------------------------------
maybe someone else can consolidate any redundant info or i could look at it later but i am bored now...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4404209
obviously 034 has some solutions
http://www.034motorsport.com/chassis-co ... 7_106.html
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthrea ... &styleid=8
post#11
UrS4 front hubs (machined to fit by me)
b5 A4 rear hubs
Brembo 4 piston calipers from a Porsche 997 C2 (striped and painted red, Quattro script added)
Porsche motorsport front pads
Porsche caliper
b5 S4 rear calipers (also striped, painted, Quattro script added)
mk2 gti rear pads (new OEM VW, had them laying around; many vw/audi applications use this same pad profile)
Euro S8 slotted 323x30mm rotors (imported)
b7 S4 rear rotors
034 Motorsport b5 to b7 S4 rear caliper brackets
replica RS2 front caliper brackets (machined by me w/ modified dims. to eliminate need for shimming; cost ~$4 in material)
new wheel bearings (germanautoparts.com)
stainless brake lines (034)
3mm spacer between the front rotor and hub (H&R)
**with stock e-brake cable routing the cable is just a little too short, so a minor re-routing at the subframe is required. After doing that it works perfectly and lines up very well.
------------------------------------------------------------
b7 s4 rear brakes on b5q rear hubs :: So presuming you punch in a B5q rear hub, use a B5 S4 rotor, and use B5 S4 rear brake caliper & carrier, it'll all match & fit together. And the OE carrier has the same spacing on the bolt holes, so that's why it'll work on your knuckle.
**one could replace the B5 S4 256x20mm setup with the 300x22mm rear disc setup from a 2007 B7 S4
http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2129199
http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22558
STaSIS 298mm x 22mm
http://www.audiworld.com/tech/wheel56.shtml
-------------------------------------------------------
Many diff OEM possibilities
http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthread.php?1572831
-----------------------------------------------------------
Hybrid_Hatch Front upgrade for COUPE:
996 monobloc calipers, s8 rotors, rs2 caliper carriers
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26984&start=800
-----------------------------------------------------------------
COUPE:
http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread ... 98&page=10
The final configuration for the S2 Coupe (NOT Avant or Sedan) is as follows.
300x22mm rear disc from neu S4 - part number = 8E0 615 601R (2-off)
Diameter reduced to 280mm - no other mods to disc - cost 20 quid for machineman
280x22 carrier from the S8 - part number = 4D0 615 425C (2-off)
Rear caliper from UrS6 - same as RR quattro - part number to follow
This caliper has a bigger piston than the S2 item. Topology is perfect.
S8 pads for those 280mm discs - part number = 1J0 698 451L
The pads are sited perfectly on the disc surface by the carrier. No overhang.
4 x 50mm long caliper carrier bolts - part number = N101 815 02
Shortened to 35mm. The 30mm original bolts are too short cos of carrier spacers.
12 x M10 washers approx 1.25mm thick
Arranged three deep for a ~4mm spacing to centre the S8 carrier over the disc
These are a bit fiddly to fit cos they get sandwiched between hub and carrier - a properly made spacer bracket would be more elegant and easy but its no biggie.
To complete the transition I renewed the hydraulic lines to the caliper - same as S2 hose along with new spring clip for the union bracket. Part numbers below:
S2 Coupe rear hose = 893 611 775 (2-off)
Union clip for hose = 4D0 611 715B (2-off)
Fitment to one side of the car is complete - bad light stopped play ! My rear discs are now bigger than my fronts until I get the 996 monos fitted with A8 323x30 discs but thats another entirely more easy story. This exercise is just to get me thru MOT - then I'll get to the front anchors
This disc reduction to 280mm was only necessary on the Coupe cos of the handbrake routing to the caliper - the UrS6/RR caliper is a perfect fit on the Coupe application.
On an Avant/Sedan, you can run with the 8E0 disc at full size of 300x22 using the corresponding carrier, caliper and pads - not cheap but a mighty upgrade for the Avant/Sedan and the handbrake combination of that 8E0 caliper works on the Avant/Sedan.
Parts list for the Avant/Sedan conversion is as follows -
Disc = 8E0 615 601R (2-off)
Carrier = 8E0 615 425B (2-off)
Caliper = 8E0 615 423C and 424C
Pads = 4B3 698 451
Hoses = 8E0 611 775H (2-off)
Carrier bolts = To be added (normal S2 avant/sedan items as no spacer required)
Sorry it all took so long - it has been an expensive process at times, but the 8E0 calipers, carriers and pads will go to a good Avant running home.
The total price of everything for my vented rear disc conversion on the S2 Coupe from S4/S6/S8 parts isn't as lairy as you might think. Most expensive item is the S8 carriers as you'll not find them in a breaker easily. The discs are cheap. The pads aren't expensive and I paid about 100 quid for two good calipers of a 1997 S6 from a breaker.
Paul
PS - Note that whilst its not necessary to change your handbrake cable for this conversion you might decide to do at this time just to refresh everything on the rear brakes. If you do, then note the following :
Coupe handbrake cables are different each side - 893 609 721E and 893 609 722E
The Coupe handbrake fits the S6/RR caliper with spring clip 857 609 745A (2-off)
The Avant/Sedan handbrake is same each side = 8A0 609 721AD (2-off)
A different retaining clip is required for that on the 8E0 caliper = 171 611 819 (2-off)
And finally - heres the brake caliper part numbers applicable to 8E0 upgrade on the Coupe....
447 615 423 and 447 615 424
You'll find that for an AAN equipped UrS4/S6 from 08/91 thru 07/97 or the AEC equipped (4.2 V8) UrS6 from 09/94 thru 10/97.
I notice there is a part number 447 698 661X listed for this which gets you both reco'd calipers and new pads. This is listed for the UrS4/S6 above and also the RR engined quattro of 1990/1991 vintage. List price from Audi UK is a frightening one approx £600 before VAT, but you don't need to pay that !
Key here is the side pull handbrake mechanism needed for the Coupe.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Rear 300mm parts list is:
Calipers:
8E0 615 423 C (silver)
8E0 615 424 C (silver)
or
8E0 615 423 J (black)
8E0 615 424 J (black)
Carrier:
8E0 615 425 B (silver)
or
8E0 615 425 E (black)
Disc:
8E0 615 601 R
Pads:
4B3 698 451 A
---------------------------------------------------------------
maybe someone else can consolidate any redundant info or i could look at it later but i am bored now...
What about the brake master cylinder? Which one do people upgrade to, and at what point is it necessary to go bigger?
will Paul setup work on a coupe with b5 rear hubs or is the offset to much to use the S4 rotors.
Cause this is the result I got with it more like 12mm of spacing not 4mm
![1413810829448.jpg]( "1413810829448.jpg")
So now I'm considering finding an other options for the rotors.
Like the 280x22 A8 rear rotors
Cause this is the result I got with it more like 12mm of spacing not 4mm
So now I'm considering finding an other options for the rotors.
Like the 280x22 A8 rear rotors
Attachments
I just found out that the b5 hubs offset is 8mm more then the coupe.
so for those of us that used the b5 hubs used these A8 rear rotors, 8E0615301P 280mm x 22mm the hat height is 46.4mm, should fit with minimal spacing.
so for those of us that used the b5 hubs used these A8 rear rotors, 8E0615301P 280mm x 22mm the hat height is 46.4mm, should fit with minimal spacing.
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