I haven't tried.

I see no point in spending out on a new fuel pump that I'm not going to able to use in the project.

I'll be running an aftermarket pump in the van so may use that just to move the car around if need be.

MG

 

Almost positive you can use the SteveKen adapter kit for the trans. The wiring shouldn't be tough, the technology isn't that advanced for an 04ish car. Just use the W12 cluster and wire it up correctly.

The technology IS very advanced, even on a 2001 D2 6,0 A8L. The cluster's just a minute part of the jigsaw. To run the W12 cluster, you'll need to have pretty much the whole wiring, or at least the main (central) one, which is the dash harness.

I've rewired a D2 6,0 W12 that had suffered a minor dash fire. It took close to 4 weeks to get it up and running, making a new harness. Bear in mind, this car actually came with a 6,0 W12, yet it was a pig to rewire, and fought back every step of the way. After she ran, it took me a further week to eliminate bugs that had the cluster glowing like a Christmas tree.

It's not an easy job.

So how many wires go to the motor? Can't be more than like 50. Most of them are like "oil low light" or coolant temp. The only real input that the motor sees is the throttle and power

 

So how many wires go to the motor? Can't be more than like 50. Most of them are like "oil low light" or coolant temp. The only real input that the motor sees is the throttle and power

If only it was that straight forward, but it's not.

 

So how many wires go to the motor? Can't be more than like 50. Most of them are like "oil low light" or coolant temp. The only real input that the motor sees is the throttle and power

If only it was that straight forward, but it's not.

So what other inputs does the motor see? How many wires go through the harness plugs?

 

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_268.pdf
i think page 28 might start to answer the question, although not very detailed

 

So what other inputs does the motor see? How many wires go through the harness plugs?

Bud, I'd have to be an anorak to remember how many wires go through the harness plug. I honestly can't remember, I do a job, then put my mind back on family issues. Without looking at a D2 6,0 W12, or at least the wiring schematic, I couldn't answer your question.

 

Well I've taken the plunge and purchased a 2004 VW Phaeton W12 with a blown transmission.

It's only done 59k miles but the ZF5hp24 (yes it's the same as the S8 one I rebuilt) has had enough.

Unlike the S8, I can't remove the transmission without pulling the motor and once it's out, I don't really feel like putting it back in. It still drives, just in 5th gear but the engine has enough power to set off like that!

I'll start a new project thread when I take the car to pieces.

A few questions...

Has anyone tried bolting up a B7 RS4 gearbox to a W12?

Will an 034 motorsport flex plate insert for the ABZ fit the W12?

Thanks

 

Mickey, the W12 crank shares the same 10-bolt fitment to flexiplate with the original Audi V8, D2 32V, VR6 and RS6. All have the same PCD. However, the W12 flexiplate takes a larger torque converter than an ABZ, so I very much doubt if the 034 insert will fit.

Volkswagen Touareg 3,2 VR6 6-speed manual has a 10-bolt crank...the flywheel is a direct bolt-on affair to the 6,0 V12...

 

How about the timing rings on the flex plate? I've not seen one from a W12 yet. Do they run a pin or a 60-2 etc?
I've been looking at many Audi gearboxes and have yet to find anything else that uses the same bolt pattern as the W12... I remember hearing that one of the W12 Bentley's was available as a manual but looking it up, everything is auto.
MG

 

I've yet to start pulling the Phaeton apart but it's looking increasingly like it's got Can-Bus and therefore a big headache to get running outside of the vehicle. Not impossible but not fun either!

Also... following up on the bolt up pattern of the W12. I think that that may depend on the year of the W12 engine.

Looking at the W12 from a D2 A8, a Phaeton W12 illustration from the self study guide and the Audi V10...

The Audi V10 and Phaeton W12 look to be similar but the D2 A8 W12 looks very different.

I'll continue to research.

MG

 

Did the D2 have CAN-BUS? If not could you use the electronics from one of those instead?

 

This has already crossed my mind. I need to look into what differences there are between the A8 W12 and the Phaeton W12 engines.

I know that the intake manifold is different but the cams, sensors, comp ratio etc could also be different and give me huge headaches with running problems.

Unfortunately this is one engine where an aftermarket ECU won't work due to the complicated nature of variable cams on both intake and exhaust etc.

MG

 

I bet you could do it with two aftermarket ECUs though (just like the RS4)

One to control fuel and ignition and one to control the cams - feed them both the same inputs but set them up and map them to do different things!

Or, one to do fuel and inlet cams and one to do ignition and exhaust cams, that way you can probably run full sequential, or at least batch fire and wasted spark

 

I can't imagine the ECU needs much to run outside of the car. What are you putting it in? The only input is the throttle really

 

While doing to tidying up in the garage this morning, I found both my Audi fixed gearbox spacer and the W12 spacer that I bought a while ago for research purposes and they share 3 locating holes.

I've laid them on top of each other to see just how far out the rest are.

I realise that the photo needs rotating and will do that later on.

MG

 

Oh, and here's a few of the W12 spacer sitting against a Porsche gearbox.

Interesting that they share more in common.

MG

 

Cos you just have a Porsche gearbox kicking about. Obviously

I found that the 924 box had more in common with the 3.6 V8 than the 012 from an A4. Weird coincidence?

 

This gearbox is sold to a friend in Sweden. The reason I wanted to check it is that I have the choice of either an 01E 2WD box from a 2.5TDI or a Boxster S gearbox which is fundamentally the same as the 996 but has the diff on the other side to change the direction of drive.

I also spoke to MRC Tuning today about the possibility of having the ECUs chipped to code out can-bus etc. We'll see!

MG

 

I'm currently driving the Phaeton W12 as my daily driver... it's not cheap on fuel! Especially as it's stuck in top gear as the transmission needs a rebuild. It that didn't mean dismantling the front end of the car, I would have done it by now.

So far, nobody has been able to offer to re-program the engine ECUs to run without the rest of the system.

That leads me to believe that either no one has ever done this or that at the moment, it's not possible. Maybe that will change in the future.

I've started looking for Audi A8 D2 ECUs (lots of those on ebay.de) and the engine harness. I think that this is probably my way forwards.

Having checked on some basics, the camshafts, heads etc are identical between the BAN (Phaeton W12) and the AZC (A8 W12). The throttle bodies have a different part number but then the inlet manifold is different also...

I've more research to do and to get another vehicle on the road so that this one can get taken apart.

MG

 

The only W12 swap I've ever seen was in a VW Fridolin...

http://www.volksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13749

It looks like it only has a single ECU in this vid...

 

Just keeping the info coming on these engines.

I've recently been offered the loom and ECUs from an A8 D2 W12 in UK but the price was more than I have to pay someone who can tune the original Phaeton ECUs to run... and I get more bhp out of it too!

Someone has asked for the part number of the W12 engine/gearbox spacer plate so I figured I'd take a couple of photos and put them on here for everyone to see.

I'm getting closer to pulling the engine out of the Phaeton and have started parting it out.

After reading up about removing the engine, I found out that the sump isn't strong enough to support the engine when it's sitting on the floor and will break! The engine weighs 250kg!!

As a result, I've bought the VW Tool which locates into the bottom of the engine block which will allow the engine to sit safely and square to the floor. This will also help when I come to place the engine and gearbox in the right position on the chassis jig.

The donor vehicle...

MG

 

Nice! Love that your willing to play with one of these. Cool motor. You are a glutin for punishment!

 

I've finally got to stripping the Phaeton down.

With the radiator out of the way, you can really start to see the engine.

I hope to have the engine/gearbox out in the next few days but as I'm not sure which bits I'm using yet, I'm taking my time to remove everything carefully rather than blasting through stuff.

I have found someone who makes an adaptor plate to go from the W12 to an Audi manual gearbox - he makes the kit for the C5 RS6 and that shares the same bolt pattern as the W12... but... the kit is over $2,000 which I don't have.

So, I'm going to look into using a flex plate from an ABZ with 034 Motorsport Flywheel insert.

This would mean that the starter motor wouldn't reach so I may modify the gearbox casing and have a section of casing welded in from another gearbox and mount the starter motor on the gearbox rather than the engine.

After that, I'll have to bridge the gaps from the engine to the transmission around the outside of the bell-housing.

MG

 

awful nice car to steal the engine from...

 

Could you get an insert made to fit the Phaeton flex plate? Or is that too big to go in the gearbox?